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Buick Forum: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.
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  1. #31
    ryenie is offline Full Member My Buick(s): 95 Monte Carlo L36
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by framedearth View Post
    Thanks man for the reply, ya i notice air sizzling out of the bleeder valve next to the water pump, i burned the hell out of my hand... i even replaced all 3 cooling fan relays, did nothing. I was sitting in the car after i replaced them to see if the fans would kick on, they still don't. But the temp gauge stayed below cool for awhile, i get out for a few, get back in it, i see it at almost half, then it just keeps creeping up, and i dont even know if its reading correctly like you said. I think i will have to take it to a mechanic to get the system purged, i burned my hand pretty bad when i was loosening one of the bleeder valves to let air out and i opened it to much and it blew off, ya i'm an idiot, of course the car wasn't running but it still shot out and sprayed all over my hand, thank goodness it didn't get in my eyes. So far i have replaced the thermostat, the coolant level sensor and those relays.

    Oh ya lol, i see a white Cobalt in one of the pics, i own one very similar haha, but mines like a bluish grey, not sure if that's your's. I meant to mention that sucks what happened to your engine...and i'm sure someone liberated them lol unless you found them. And black would look SO much nice than white.
    Sorry for the short reply it's been quite busy. I do think it just needs to be bled more. Have you managed to get heat yet? How hot has it gotten since you've started bleeding it? I've noticed when you get an air bubble, aside from the loss of heat from the heater is the way the gauge acts. Very important to stress this will only work if it's an air bubble trapped, if it is any other malfunction chance of damaging the engine are pretty good (warped head, blown headgasket, cylinder wall damage, etc.). So after all the necessary repairs have been made, and coolant topped off as much as it can be. Start the engine, hold the rpms at about 1500-2000 (if you don't slightly rev the engine when the thermostat opens there won't be enough flow to push the air through), and begin to allow the engine to warm up. Turn the heat on full blast coming out the middle dash vents only. After the needle comes off the peg the air would normally be getting warm, but with the air bubble it won't. So the engine gets to normal temp, still no heat, might hold temp for a moment, but chances are it will slowly keep creeping upwards. It will pass the point where the first fan should come on but the fans won't kick on (all the times i've dealt with this issue they've not), so the temp keeps climbing, and climbing, and about the time it gets close to 3\4s of the gauge, it will drastically shoot way down (the thermostat just opened and pushed out that air bubble) (if it begins to go past the last white mark before the red cut it off (something else is causing you to overheat),but when it drops the heat will start coming out warm and should start getting hot as the engine warms back up. Allow it to reach normal temp again and turn it off. let it cool, top it off, and this time when you begin to warm it up it should start giving warm air when the needle comes off the peg and have good heat once at the halfway point. I don't usually give instruction on this method, it's something i would only do on my own engine, very important to know the history of the car, but for those stubborn cases it has worked for me and i've not toasted any engines. Anyhow keep me\us posted on what you decide to do with it.

    Thanks for the compliments. The cobalt is the misses, we actually got it for the cost of repairs (get it running and you could have it was the case) it was a basket case when we got it, blown head gasket, warped head, thermostat in upside and backwards, timing component issues (but no bent valves???), and a driver that believed in redlining every gear, and extreme parking brake usage, but i think we have about four hundred in it not counting tires. It averages 50 miles a day without any issues. As far as the montes engine i'm undecided on whether it was a real loss or not. From researching, the LQ1 or engine X is a high maintenance engine, coupled with a transmission that couldn't handle the original output of the engine so rather than upgrading the transmission they lowered the hp to the limit of the transmission they went with. When i bought the car i bought it with the intentions of doing the swap so i'm not disappointed there. I was hoping to find a supercharged 3800 for it but the transmission in the park avenue changed my mind for me.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Its no biggey man, been a little hectic here as well. Wow i can't believe your Cobalt was treated that way, sounds like a friend of mine, day before yesterday he blew the engine in his father's Corolla (was borrowing it cause he's building this ridiculous Civic....), which only had like 108k on it... He's like the dude you mentioned, idiotic and doesn't care about any one else's property. Well i'm glad you didn't have to put too much into it to get it going, we have had ours since 09 and i love the car, especially the factory Pioneer audio package, pretty good. Thanks man for that bit of information, i didn't notice/know the bump down in HP due to too much stress to the stock transmission, i love forums haha, learn so much. Oh and ya considering the PA's tranny died, right? Also im surprised your Cobalts engine and transmission took all that abuse, is yours an automatic?

    About the Century now, i took it to express (i severely burned my fingers lol) and they bled and filled the system up for me for a reasonable price, heat started to work, everything seemed ok but then the other day i took it out and the coolant light kept popping on and off and when i started to park the car the needle started to creep past the middle and the fans failed to switch on (they work with the AC and defrost). But now i see what you wrote and it makes me wonder if that's all i have to do is to get that final air bubble out if its present, wow i really appreciate that you told me that! I was thinking about putting it in the shop (lack of tools and etc) but i may try this last thing on her before chunking some money out. Oh, i also took the relays back, didn't think they had anything to do with it due to me thinking it was fixed haha.
    Last edited by framedearth; April 9th, 2017 at 10:25 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryenie View Post
    Sorry for the short reply it's been quite busy. I do think it just needs to be bled more. Have you managed to get heat yet? How hot has it gotten since you've started bleeding it? I've noticed when you get an air bubble, aside from the loss of heat from the heater is the way the gauge acts. Very important to stress this will only work if it's an air bubble trapped, if it is any other malfunction chance of damaging the engine are pretty good (warped head, blown headgasket, cylinder wall damage, etc.). So after all the necessary repairs have been made, and coolant topped off as much as it can be. Start the engine, hold the rpms at about 1500-2000 (if you don't slightly rev the engine when the thermostat opens there won't be enough flow to push the air through), and begin to allow the engine to warm up. Turn the heat on full blast coming out the middle dash vents only. After the needle comes off the peg the air would normally be getting warm, but with the air bubble it won't. So the engine gets to normal temp, still no heat, might hold temp for a moment, but chances are it will slowly keep creeping upwards. It will pass the point where the first fan should come on but the fans won't kick on (all the times i've dealt with this issue they've not), so the temp keeps climbing, and climbing, and about the time it gets close to 3\4s of the gauge, it will drastically shoot way down (the thermostat just opened and pushed out that air bubble) (if it begins to go past the last white mark before the red cut it off (something else is causing you to overheat),but when it drops the heat will start coming out warm and should start getting hot as the engine warms back up. Allow it to reach normal temp again and turn it off. let it cool, top it off, and this time when you begin to warm it up it should start giving warm air when the needle comes off the peg and have good heat once at the halfway point. I don't usually give instruction on this method, it's something i would only do on my own engine, very important to know the history of the car, but for those stubborn cases it has worked for me and i've not toasted any engines. Anyhow keep me\us posted on what you decide to do with it.

    Thanks for the compliments. The cobalt is the misses, we actually got it for the cost of repairs (get it running and you could have it was the case) it was a basket case when we got it, blown head gasket, warped head, thermostat in upside and backwards, timing component issues (but no bent valves???), and a driver that believed in redlining every gear, and extreme parking brake usage, but i think we have about four hundred in it not counting tires. It averages 50 miles a day without any issues. As far as the montes engine i'm undecided on whether it was a real loss or not. From researching, the LQ1 or engine X is a high maintenance engine, coupled with a transmission that couldn't handle the original output of the engine so rather than upgrading the transmission they lowered the hp to the limit of the transmission they went with. When i bought the car i bought it with the intentions of doing the swap so i'm not disappointed there. I was hoping to find a supercharged 3800 for it but the transmission in the park avenue changed my mind for me.
    Well i took it to a shop and they mentioned a cracked head, but i doubt that, i dont know what the hell to do, the cooling fans did come on at around 3/4 i believe when he was testing it, he said to replace the thermostat again (i guess i can try a higher temp thermostat), which i am not doing, that bottom bolt took me an hour to put back on and i was so sore the next day i couldn't move because i was hunched over awkwardly, so im taking it to a shop... I dont know what to do, i have had lemons for the past 3 years, and i take care of my vehicles (like my Cobalt). Thanks Ryenie, but i am at a loss. I love the car, but when something tends to piss me off to this point i wanna get rid of it...

  4. #34
    ryenie is offline Full Member My Buick(s): 95 Monte Carlo L36
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    I feel ya on wanting to get rid of a vehicle when you can't get it to be dependable. Did they say why they think it has a cracked head? Do the radiator hoses get hard as soon as you start the engine with a cold engine, or if you remove the radiator cap and start the engine does it starts to blow bubbles out of the radiator? i had a caravan with actually cracked heads and these were the only symptoms (a blown head gasket can also cause these same exact symptoms depending on where it blows) but without these symptoms, you would have to visually inspect or pressure test the head with it removed to verify the integrity of the head, a pressure test on the system would only indicate a leak, even if it were leaking internally, claiming it to be a cracked head sounds like someones grabbing at straws? It sounds like the garage may have possibly pushed an air bubble through, has the heat started working any since getting it back from the garage? I do hate that you're having issues, and i know that the 3.1 can be a pain to bleed, but i also have learned that it is one of the most misdiagnosed engines by those who aren't familiar with them. At this point, i would think the next thing that needs to be done is to point a ir thermometer at it in different spots and see how hot the engine and hoses and radiator are actually getting as the engine warms up and compare it to the reading on the gauge, or with the live data viewed by a scanner. If the repairs are more than what can be afforded and you do end up getting rid of it i think you will get more money from selling it than from sending it to a junk yard (the one near me offers 300-500 depending on if they have to pick it up and if it's complete). It shouldn't be that difficult to sell for 500+ to someone that fixes and sells car for a living.

  5. #35
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryenie View Post
    I feel ya on wanting to get rid of a vehicle when you can't get it to be dependable. Did they say why they think it has a cracked head? Do the radiator hoses get hard as soon as you start the engine with a cold engine, or if you remove the radiator cap and start the engine does it starts to blow bubbles out of the radiator? i had a caravan with actually cracked heads and these were the only symptoms (a blown head gasket can also cause these same exact symptoms depending on where it blows) but without these symptoms, you would have to visually inspect or pressure test the head with it removed to verify the integrity of the head, a pressure test on the system would only indicate a leak, even if it were leaking internally, claiming it to be a cracked head sounds like someones grabbing at straws? It sounds like the garage may have possibly pushed an air bubble through, has the heat started working any since getting it back from the garage? I do hate that you're having issues, and i know that the 3.1 can be a pain to bleed, but i also have learned that it is one of the most misdiagnosed engines by those who aren't familiar with them. At this point, i would think the next thing that needs to be done is to point a ir thermometer at it in different spots and see how hot the engine and hoses and radiator are actually getting as the engine warms up and compare it to the reading on the gauge, or with the live data viewed by a scanner. If the repairs are more than what can be afforded and you do end up getting rid of it i think you will get more money from selling it than from sending it to a junk yard (the one near me offers 300-500 depending on if they have to pick it up and if it's complete). It shouldn't be that difficult to sell for 500+ to someone that fixes and sells car for a living.
    Thanks again for the reply man, you really are helping me out! I wont be getting rid of the car, its in too good on condition to just get rid of or junk, ya i didn't see any excess bubbles while having a funnel in the radiator. My heat now works fine, its just the low coolant reading light when going up hills, especially my road, its nearly like this / lol... When i took it to this mechanic, he hooked up a Snap-On modis and checked the fan speeds and he didnt say any of them were malfunctioning, he let it warm up to about 3/4 and the fans kicked on (according to him) finally, but i'm too afraid to drive it when seeing it at 3/4 haha. I guess i can go to Walmart and buy one of those IR guns, maybe the IR on my phone will work lol.

  6. #36
    ryenie is offline Full Member My Buick(s): 95 Monte Carlo L36
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    It sounds like you've gotten some air out, but more remains. I believe once you get all of the air out the temp gauge will quit going past the halfway mark. I wouldn't drive it around until you get it acting right. But i do think you've getting more air out, as evident by the now working heat. If you feel inclined, i would make sure the radiator is topped off, and let it warm up and cool down a few times, topping it off between runs. It's a process and a pain, but with all the air bled it shouldn't fluctuate. I want to say the reason for the difficulty has to do with the 2 coolant sensor setup. One is in a place where the air bubble builds up (the gauge sensor, located in the rear cylinder head drivers side corner.) , the other sensor (for the pcm, located in thermostat housing) is low enough in the flow that the air bubble doesn't affect it. This is why the gauge goes so high before the fans finally kick on. The thermostat is closed so the air trapped in the corner of the head can't be moved until the thermostat opens, the air bubble heats quicker than the coolant, so the gauge goes up and up, even though the coolant isn't getting as hot as fast, and finally when the thermostat gets hot enough to open the bubble is pushed out (some times needs a little coaxing with a little throttle), the coolant takes the place of the air bubble and the gauge reading then assumes the temp of the coolant. That's my theory and i'm sticking with it. I would say you could change the gauges sensor, but i really don't think that it would change how the gauge is acting. There not that much, shopping around they're around 10-20 bucks, but i wouldn't look into replacing it until you attempt to get some more air out.

  7. #37
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryenie View Post
    It sounds like you've gotten some air out, but more remains. I believe once you get all of the air out the temp gauge will quit going past the halfway mark. I wouldn't drive it around until you get it acting right. But i do think you've getting more air out, as evident by the now working heat. If you feel inclined, i would make sure the radiator is topped off, and let it warm up and cool down a few times, topping it off between runs. It's a process and a pain, but with all the air bled it shouldn't fluctuate. I want to say the reason for the difficulty has to do with the 2 coolant sensor setup. One is in a place where the air bubble builds up (the gauge sensor, located in the rear cylinder head drivers side corner.) , the other sensor (for the pcm, located in thermostat housing) is low enough in the flow that the air bubble doesn't affect it. This is why the gauge goes so high before the fans finally kick on. The thermostat is closed so the air trapped in the corner of the head can't be moved until the thermostat opens, the air bubble heats quicker than the coolant, so the gauge goes up and up, even though the coolant isn't getting as hot as fast, and finally when the thermostat gets hot enough to open the bubble is pushed out (some times needs a little coaxing with a little throttle), the coolant takes the place of the air bubble and the gauge reading then assumes the temp of the coolant. That's my theory and i'm sticking with it. I would say you could change the gauges sensor, but i really don't think that it would change how the gauge is acting. There not that much, shopping around they're around 10-20 bucks, but i wouldn't look into replacing it until you attempt to get some more air out.
    Again i really do appreciate you helping through this process!!! Well i rode around in it today and we probably drove it over 10 miles, went to the doctor due to me getting this bronchitis/sinus infection crap, anyway went to Publix (grocery store) across town in some stop and go traffic and the needle stayed on the mark right below the middle, never overheated but the low coolant light did come on at times when ascending and descending lol, i replaced the sensor that is located on the radiator itself and that fixed the constant coolant light that it had when i bought it, haven't touched that other sensor yet, i need to buy a swivel extender and a 19mm deep socket (a lot of my tools were stolen...) so i don't have to mess with the throttle body, but this is if it needs to be replaced. Later on today i will do what you recommended, i agree with your theory 100%. So pretty much i need to keep adding coolant until it wont take anymore

  8. #38
    ryenie is offline Full Member My Buick(s): 95 Monte Carlo L36
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Your very welcome. I understand the frustration (Believe Me, as Trump would say). The coolant level sensor is the only sensor that will turn the low coolant light on, so if the lights i coming on when it shouldn't and the sensors been replaced, you may need to start investigating the wires for it. Otherwise it sounds like the temp sensors are working properly. So yeah, just make sure the radiator stays topped off. You shouldn't have to add any after a few trips once the heat starts working. But it sounds like you've about got it straightened back out.

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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Deja vu..... get a bright flashlight (bright!) and after the car is all warmed up and idling, set it on top of the overflow reservoir. What you're looking for is bubbling. If you have bubbling you probably have head gasket issues. Rent a combustion sniffer from your local auto parts store to double checked. I did the heads on my '98 about a month ago. Had them milled and I did a quicky valve job while I was in there. Took two weekends (I work slow) and car is running fantastic, getting about 25mpg in city driving. Now to fix a p0446 code but that'll be after I do a trans filter change

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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryenie View Post
    Your very welcome. I understand the frustration (Believe Me, as Trump would say). The coolant level sensor is the only sensor that will turn the low coolant light on, so if the lights i coming on when it shouldn't and the sensors been replaced, you may need to start investigating the wires for it. Otherwise it sounds like the temp sensors are working properly. So yeah, just make sure the radiator stays topped off. You shouldn't have to add any after a few trips once the heat starts working. But it sounds like you've about got it straightened back out.
    Been busy like you, btw the Trump pun was funny lol. I haven't messed with it since i left my keys at a friend's the other day and that was the only set i was provided haha. I haven't gotten to try what you said to do (fill, cool off, warm back up and so forth) but as soon as i get my keys I'll try that out, just tired of pessimistic people telling me its probably a cracked head or some s***. What confuses me is that the upper radiator hose when warm while running the hose is pretty "squishy", not alot of pressure, past cars the radiator hose would have quite alot of pressure behind it. Im so confused lol. And thanks Miles! I have checked for bubbles and there doesn't seem to be any. Is it possible for there to be this much air in there that 2 mechanics bled it and it still has the problems, because I've bled it myself aswell, but before they did.

  11. #41
    ryenie is offline Full Member My Buick(s): 95 Monte Carlo L36
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    I think due to the radiator being lower than the highest point, on top of having to deal with two bleeders, and a thermostat that doesn't have a hole to allow air through, it is a process to get it properly bled. It typically takes multiple top off's. But each one should take less and less. Once the heater begins working it should not take more than 3 top offs, before it no longer needs any. If after this point you still have to keep topping it off i would suspect a leak. If it's leaking and can't be seen externally, i would think it's the lower intake gaskets (not sure if those were touched on but if recall correctly, no coolant in the oil has been mentioned, and 4 pages is a lot of re-reading and i'm easily distracted). I've tore down more than a handful of 3100's due to the intake gaskets, and several had been severely overheated, actually overheated (ran in the red til the engine died) not just the first appearance of an air bubble that scares everyone into thinking they're overheating. Haven't seen a single cracked head (doesn't mean it's not possible), but i would suspect a head gasket or intake gasket, before i would a cracked head.

  12. #42
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryenie View Post
    I think due to the radiator being lower than the highest point, on top of having to deal with two bleeders, and a thermostat that doesn't have a hole to allow air through, it is a process to get it properly bled. It typically takes multiple top off's. But each one should take less and less. Once the heater begins working it should not take more than 3 top offs, before it no longer needs any. If after this point you still have to keep topping it off i would suspect a leak. If it's leaking and can't be seen externally, i would think it's the lower intake gaskets (not sure if those were touched on but if recall correctly, no coolant in the oil has been mentioned, and 4 pages is a lot of re-reading and i'm easily distracted). I've tore down more than a handful of 3100's due to the intake gaskets, and several had been severely overheated, actually overheated (ran in the red til the engine died) not just the first appearance of an air bubble that scares everyone into thinking they're overheating. Haven't seen a single cracked head (doesn't mean it's not possible), but i would suspect a head gasket or intake gasket, before i would a cracked head.
    Oh my, almost a month later!! Hope all is well! Was in the hospital, and have been busy, i havent even really touched the internet. So, im driving my car now, which seems to be ok, but most likely needs more air out. We drove the car to ATL, GA which is about 80 ish miles away, the car did fine. Im paranoid about the transmission now, ever since i got the car, when it goes out of 1st gear it has a jerk to it that i dont know if its normal, also 2 days ago i discover when i come to a stop occasionally theres this strange clicking sound, the car does need new brakes due too them being noisy haha, i know the car is nearly 20 years old and i expect small things, but im a HUGE worry wart... Anyway i hope all is well

    Update: Went out there and did the coolant fill up again to get the rest of the air out (yes it still has air). I inspected the transmission fluid good and its brownish -.- so that will have to be changed, i hope driving it with that crap didnt harm the tranny.
    Last edited by John Benjamin Lusk; May 20th, 2017 at 08:49 AM.

  13. #43
    Dreager5 is offline Buick Newbie My Buick(s): Buick Century
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Only reason for removing\loosening them is the gasket is woven through the pushrods so the pushrods need to be removed to remove the old gasket and install the new one. There's a few videos on you tube if you wanna watch and see how comfortable you are with it. I'll check some out and see if there's any that stand out as a well done job.[/QUOTE]

    *** No need to remove the rockers for the Lim job. I used a long arm,(for leverage) small jawed wrench and push/pull up on them. The danger of stripping the aluminum rocker threads isn't worth it imho. Another time saver is to take off the injector rail with the LIM (Money/time saver also, no need to replace injector O rings) My 2 cents.
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  14. #44
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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

    Thanks Dreager 😊

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    Re: Hey everyone, i am new to the site and to Buick! Maybe some help needed.

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    (John Benjamin Lusk here, the Facebook login always messes up) Everything seems to be ok now. It will go past half only when it idles for a long time, but i was told by a mechanic its somewhat normal for these engines in the really hot conditions we have here, sounds weird too me but whatever, now the damn AC wont work.

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