Anybody install a Catch Can?

mike69440

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I'm Just curious?
I might have to take a look at the PVC plumbing on the LGT
 

Wlepse

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Interested to see where this thread goes. Was thinking of one myself to hopefully help with any carbon build up on intake valves.
 

NormT

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Interested to see where this thread goes. Was thinking of one myself to hopefully help with any carbon build up on intake valves.
The GM Ecotec 2.0T has not had a history of intake valve carbon build up like VAG direct injected engines, nor has anybody else.

You can check the Cadillac ATS forum for kits and plumbing on the Cadillacforum.
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Wlepse

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That may be true but the recirc of oil to a hot valve without fuel flow over the valve means it could happen. I often see these things as cheap insurance. Especially if I get the Trifecta tune.

Too many times I have joined forums to hear people say things are not a problem only to find out in 100k+ miles you have a big problem. Perfect example is my 2001 A4 1.8, OCI was 10k with regular oil. Everyone said they were bullet proof. Then a bunch started sludging up, some as low as 60k. I always did 5k intervals with synthetic, car currently has 295k on original engine and turbo.
 

Banto

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For those of us mechanically challenged, please explain.
 

Wlepse

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For those of us mechanically challenged, please explain.
Not sure if you are asking about how to install or how carbon fouling occurs. For install this is dependent on catch can design and engine bay layout but basically you install this before the PCV line goes back to intake.

As for how carbon fouling can occur. When an engine is running it generates pressure in the crankcase. Older engines were open to relive this but since this airflow includes oil and fuel from blow by it is not great for the environment. So they closed the systems up and recirculate this airflow to the intake. So this flow goes right over your intake valves. Since these are hot the oil has a tendency to coke up and deposit. But on older vehicles with carbs or port fuel injection the gas with cleaning additives was always flowing over the same surface to continually break this down. On newer engines with direct injection the gas is injected directly into the cylinder so it doesn't have a chance to sweep the valve with cleaners to break this down. The idea with a catch can is to separate as much of this liquid in the PCV system and catch it before it gets to the valve. As was noted before, some vehicles are more prone to this and some mfgs have added some port injection to help.

In the end this isn't a requirement but can be a helpful thing if you expect to keep your ride past 100k. But this only helps if you maintain this system too. If you let it get over filled you'll have bigger problems than not having it.
 

Ctrcbob

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Back in the "old days", before PCV valves, cars had something called a Draft Tube. A tube that came out of a grommet on the rocker cover extending down the side and under the engine. While driving, the vapors would get sucked out. When standing still, you could see the blow by vapors coming out of the draft tube. My 62 Buick Convertible had that. PCV valves were invented a year or two later.
I made my own fix with my 62 Buick. Took a piece of hose, sticking one end into valve cover grommet and the other end into the Carburetors air cleaner. Worked great. All vapors got sucked through the filters. PCV valves were not invented until the late 60's.

None of that needed anymore as PCV valves do a great job.

Automotive Engineers know what they are doing. No need for Catch Cans.

In the words of the legendary Roger Hull, (look him up)

It's all "Mouse Milk"!

Remember the guys selling "water injection" kits. Swore it would double your mileage. Small water bottle under the hood with lots of hoses going every which way.
MOUSE MILK !!!!!

Remember "Slick 50"?
MOUSE MILK

You get the idea!
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mike69440

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Back in the "old days", before PCV valves, cars had something called a Draft Tube. A tube that came out of a grommet on the rocker cover extending down the side and under the engine. While driving, the vapors would get sucked out. When standing still, you could see the blow by vapors coming out of the draft tube. My 62 Buick Convertible had that. PCV valves were invented a year or two later.
I made my own fix with my 62 Buick. Took a piece of hose, sticking one end into valve cover grommet and the other end into the Carburetors air cleaner. Worked great. All vapors got sucked through the filters. PCV valves were not invented until the late 60's.

None of that needed anymore as PCV valves do a great job.

Automotive Engineers know what they are doing. No need for Catch Cans.

In the words of the legendary Roger Hull, (look him up)

It's all "Mouse Milk"!

Remember the guys selling "water injection" kits. Swore it would double your mileage. Small water bottle under the hood with lots of hoses going every which way.
MOUSE MILK !!!!!

Remember "Slick 50"?
MOUSE MILK

You get the idea!
Don't forget the 100 mpg ionizing carburetor.
Comparative Performance of 12 Crankcase Oil Mist Separators
https://www.jstor.org/stable/26273486?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Do oil catch cans work? - Engineering Explained
The Best Oil Catch Cans Under $50 in 2018? - AGradeTools.com

Alternate View:

Also some oil leave more deposits than others. I have not researched this deeply.
Best Oils for Direct Injection & Turbo Engines

I'm sort of impressed how tidy and the nice corrosion protection and fasteners used on the LGT.
Not engine Porn like my Cobra, but not bad.

OK. Somebody point out where the PVC line is?
 

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Wlepse

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[QUOTE="Ctrcbob"
Automotive Engineers know what they are doing. No need for Catch Cans.
[/QUOTE]

Being an engineer for several unrelated OEMs I can tell you often the final design is not your choice. Either bean counters want it cheaper or you are up against a time line that means things are missed or not properly optimized. This is why many people shy away from new vehicles with new technology for a year or so. Let them shake out the bugs. Granted this engine has been around for a while but the mechanism for this type of failure still exists. If there weren't vapors in the system they could just vent it, but they can't so obviously the vapors are there. What happens long term from them does depend on their design. Besides the issues mentioned above regarding design, you have to also realize car mfgs don't want your car to last forever. I am not saying a catch can is a must, but it isn't a terrible idea either. But one does have to maintain it otherwise they will do more harm than any potential good.
 

2007LucerneCXL

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Hmm mouse milk, well there are some exception as water injection is alive and well, heck even GM did water injection type system on the 1962 Oldsmobile. Catch cans, ask the Audi guys on that engineering snafu. Slick 50 is like a lot of additives, some are snake oils and others actually do work.

In the perfect world there would be no TSB's or recalls as engineering would have seen every possible problem and made a corrected change prior to production, but it's not the one we live in.
 

Banto

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That may be true but the recirc of oil to a hot valve without fuel flow over the valve means it could happen. I often see these things as cheap insurance. Especially if I get the Trifecta tune.

Too many times I have joined forums to hear people say things are not a problem only to find out in 100k+ miles you have a big problem. Perfect example is my 2001 A4 1.8, OCI was 10k with regular oil. Everyone said they were bullet proof. Then a bunch started sludging up, some as low as 60k. I always did 5k intervals with synthetic, car currently has 295k on original engine and turbo.
I have 130k miles on DI v6 on my Enclave. No major isssues with 6k miles of regular oil.
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Wlepse

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I have 130k miles on DI v6 on my Enclave. No major isssues with 6k miles of regular oil.
Not sure what point you are trying to make, that an OCI of 6k with regular oil is fine or that DI engines don't get carbon build up. But either way all you prove is that all engines are different as well as driving styles which can have a major effect on OCIs.

Again, I am not saying a catch can is a must, but DI and in particular turbo charged versions are more likely to have a carbon fouling issue. If you tune your car the extra boost will cause more blow by and speed up and fouling. It is your choice if you want to install one. Would I install a $200 version, not likely. But for $50 I might be tempted.
 

Steve F.

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It seems like most catch cans work as evidenced by the oil which you can physically see trapped in the reservoir. How much oil is caught seems to vary quite a bit from car to car. I’ve heard people say less than a tablespoon between oil changes to a couple ounces. If nothing else, it’s a good indicator of the health of your engine. If the amount of oil being caught starts to go up, then something isn’t right with your engine.
 
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Banto

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Not sure what point you are trying to make, that an OCI of 6k with regular oil is fine or that DI engines don't get carbon build up.
You stated earlier going to forums with people with 100k plus engines having major issues. Now you have a forum with a 100k plus engine with no problems.
 

RiojaTourX

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Concern I have, and why I don't have one on my vehicles, is freezing in the cold weather we get in the North. I've seen a number of rear main leaks pop up on the K2 truck forums, and they seem to be related to having a catch can.
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mike69440

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I may be all wrong on this but after doing a little research you really would want to do a dual catch can system similar to:
Cadillac ATS 2.0T Baffled Oil Catch Can System, 2013+
The CCV system can provides oil separation under boost. The PCV catch can separates oil during times when the throttle creates a vacuum.
It appears that the PCV system on the 2.0L LGT is internal, and apparently well baffled, so I wounder how much an oil catch can will actually prevent valve deposits?
The CCV system appears wide open, and Any extra boost from a tune may overwhelm the factory design.
PS: I know next to nothing about the 2.0L LGT, other than what I've read or watched, so please feel free educate me.
I've been a member of SAE, so I kind of know a bit about IC engines. I do not necessary believe the internet.
If did a single catch can, I'd do per the attached. Hooking up a Cadillac ATS 2.0T Baffled Oil Catch Can System, 2013+ PCV / CCV dual can system , is a bit more involved.
2013+ Cadillac ATS Baffled Oil Catch Can System Installation Guide by Mishimoto
Contact Us
https://www.google.com/search_ccv closed crankcase ventilation
 

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Rhetoric

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Not as well versed on DI gas engines, but in the DI diesel world there are catch can people and non-catch can people. I'm not sure anyone proved which one was better. I have 300k on my TDI and it's never had a catch can. 10k full syn oil changes its whole life.

That dual-catch can kit is very elegant, but I could think of many other things to spend $450 on.
 

mike69440

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