Brake rotors failing at 35,000 miles

pjrobbins

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I have a 2014 Encore AWD. with 35, 000 miles on it I am having to replace brakes. I am seeing rotors disintegrate and calipers near frozen . This seems to be faulty materials. Is anyone else having these problems?
 

2007LucerneCXL

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Unfortunately if you had calipers nearly frozen this would ad to the brake ware. Has the vehicle been in for service during this 35K and no one noticed? Was a dealer servicing it and did you ask them about the issue(s)? Was the brake fluid changed at the 3 year mark?

Brake pads will last between 25K to 50K on average, yes this is general, depending on vehicle and driving habits. There are TSB out there on this model, but it may be dealer visit to review what may apply to your VIN#, brakes and if it may be covered by warranty.
 

TheAirman

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You're lucky to get 35K out of them. That's pretty good these days.

Ever since GM went bankrupt, shed their debt, and closed Delphi, all those components are mostly made in China, along with the replacement parts.
 

EncoreOne

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Was the brake fluid changed at the 3 year mark? This is B.S. just away for dealers to make money from people who no nothing about car maintenance. Just because they say do in the manual does not make it true. Look at it like this, if you buy a 4 year old car used car, did the dealership change the brake fluid as the manual says to do, to make it road worthy. I am sure we all no the answer !!!!!
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2007LucerneCXL

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Brake fluid gets moisture and can get contamination, it doesn't circulate like other fluids so it remains in the system, contamination can wind up in the calipers or master, heat is transferred to the fluid from the calipers which causes the fluid to brake down, the fluid will brake down with age, rust can form inside the lines and master, all facts. Those are the reasons to do a flush, so just because a dealer didn't do them doesn't mean they shouldn't be done. Toss in flushing the power steering fluid, transmission filter & fluid change, coolant system flush and then hear the whining about how a vehicle had a problem but the owner never did any preventive mantanance LMAO.

Also it's time or milage which ever occurs first. If it's a change at 5 years or 50K and the owner sees that they only have 30K, but it's year 5 why do they think they have 20K more to go? LOL.

As a side note, if the cause of the problem is because a schedule maintenance wasn't done and the vehicle is still covered under warranty, then more than likely it becomes the owners problem and expense on the repair if its not a manufacturing defect, it's a blame game. If the oil was never changed and the engine blew who do you think is at fault, different you say, how?
 

Zeroboostbuick

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There must be something to this 30,000 mile brake fluid flush because it's in the manual.

My 2018 Regal doesn't have any intervals for brake fluid flush, ever.

If it had something to do with making money for the dealer service department, it would be something recommended for all Buick's at least once in their lifetime. But that's not the case for my Regal.
 

pjrobbins

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Local dealer, where purchased did replace rotors and even brake pads at no charge. I was told that the calipers have a twisting action and that is why they did not compress back into the bore. Work done at no charge to me.
 

2007LucerneCXL

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Glad it was free, the funtion the mgr describes is pretty much standard on all rear disc brakes, so hopefully they did something with the calipers so it doesn't return later.
 

Zeroboostbuick

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Yeah, most new cars have the rear calipers that twist.

I did my brother's Verano rear pads and about 35,000 miles. The pads were extremely tight in the retaining clip Grooves. On the new pads I filed the positioning tabs a little because they too were also much too tight in the retaining clip Grooves.
 

EncoreOne

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This the consensus of mechanics in my area:

I have had cars and trucks with 300,000 miles on them and never changed the fluid or brake calipers, waste of time and money it’s a sealed system for the most part.

The only time you would need to change your brake fluid is if you put the wrong fluid in it. I’ve been a mechanic for 30 years and never had to change brake fluid.

In my opinion its not necessary. The brake system is a sealed system so
it won't get very dirty, especially within 3 years. If the fluid looks
dirty, a real easy way to "refresh" the fluid is take a turkey baster
and suck the fluid out of the reservoir and fill it back up with clean
fluid. Then do it again in a couple months and you will have replaced
most of the "old" fluid. I've driven more than one vehicle for 10 or
more years and never had a problem with the fluid. I've had fluid turn
almost black and it still does the job its supposed to do. Scott

It is a waste of money. It's just another way to get your money! I 've never changed any brake fluids, 12 or so years ago I owned my own shop and this started shorty after trans., flushes. It does get darker but doesn't brake down.
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2007LucerneCXL

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Never change brake fluid and any auto shop that does it are just a bunch of mechanics who are conartists and cheats, got it. I guess that includes not bleeding the brakes after replacing the brake cylinder, calipers and master or flushing it after it has any of the known problems, just keep it in no matter what.

I'll let the guys at Road & Track know they are wrong and need to rewrite the article, which is the link I provided above. I will contact Mercedes-Benz and let them know that they are also wrong at the 20K 2 year mark as local mechanics apparently are more qualified then their entire engineering staff, while I'm at it might as well let all the other automobile manufacturer's know.

I can also contact the folks making all those replacement brake components and let them know that there days are numbered as that it's a sealed system and replacement parts won't be needed as nothing can damage the inside of those parts.

Like I said, change it or don't it's up to each owner to decide, but to say that it never needs to be done doesn't cover all possible driving conditions, environmental issues or type of usage.

There are ways to test your brake fluid for moisture, here's a simple one using a meter. There are some test strips and other things out there, everyone can decide on there own. If your fluid is not clear, contamination, brown or black in color, has water or if it's never been done, maybe it's at a point to think about it for others on the forum to decide.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/motor-vehicle-brake-fluid-fundamentals-testing-kiril-mucevski

And here's a step by step PDF, gee wiz I need to inform the Australians that they also don't know what they are talking about LOL.
 

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2007LucerneCXL

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Nope, I just believe in facts from qualified automotive engineers more than opinions from a bunch of people who think the world is still flat, LMAO.
 

Dirtybob

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You're lucky to get 35K out of them. That's pretty good these days.

Ever since GM went bankrupt, shed their debt, and closed Delphi, all those components are mostly made in China, along with the replacement parts.

"Made in China" doesn't necessarily mean that it is junk, but it is impossible to deny that there are a lot of craptastic parts floating around out there. Seems the manufacturers DGAF about quality control any more and it chaps my ass. Even the best (parts) warranty doesn't pay for the labor to replace and most of these parts are overpriced by a factor of 5 or more.
Historically I've had the most trouble out of ignition components - I won't buy anything made by airtex/wells anymore (made in Minnesota). Beginning to suspect that BWD has also climbed aboard the crap train.
I've seen my share of junk-right-out-of-the-box brake rotors & drums too. Drums out of round and rotors that corrode from the inside out in under a year...
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TheAirman

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Nope, I just believe in facts from qualified automotive engineers more than opinions from a bunch of people who think the world is still flat, LMAO.

Completely agree.

Brake fluid is hydroscopic by nature and absorbs water in the "sealed" system in all automobiles. And the reason I put "sealed" in quotations is that there is NO sealed systems. They are all vented.

Brake fluid - Wikipedia

A car that is parked outside in a humid environment will probably have about 15% water content in the brake fluid after 3 years. It's the nature of glycol. You could use a silicon based fluid (DOT5), which is still hydroscopic, but works better with water in it, but the problem is the seals in a DOT4 system usually are not compatible.

The hydraulic system in a commercial aircraft continually circulates the fluid through a filter and the components, but a automobile system does not. It will very slightly, over years, but the only pumping action is in the master cylinder and ABS pump. You can't change the dirty fluid, which is just water in the fluid, by just replacing the master cylinder fluid only. You have to bleed it.

Any "mechanic" that tells you otherwise is a hack and should be avoided. Some high end brand cars, if you don't change the brake fluid you can void the maintenance warranty.
 

2007LucerneCXL

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Thanks for the additional input, glad someone else gets that it's not just a manufacturer or dealership method of getting more money.
 

2007LucerneCXL

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Not sure who you are addressing this to, buy I don't believe in dealerships on fluid changes when I can just do it myself. By the way this, along with all fluids, can be done at any qualified shop so don't know why it needs to be a dealer bill. Is there some point being made here?
 
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