Leaking anti freeze - big leak

[over45]

Noticed this morning that my anti freeze was low - put in about 16-20 oz. Drove to the store and got out, talked to someone for a few minutes and noticed a large leak (dripping) under the car. They got down and looked underneath and said it appeared to be coming from the side of the engine - below the pulleys about mid engine. My heat has not been working for about a week and a half (of course - 15 degrees this am).

What is the most likely cause of this? Tks

 

[DonP]

Below the pulleys sounds like a water pump shaft leak, and if so, replacement of the pump is indicated. if you can, remove the belt from the pump pulley and feel for play in the shaft. Not a fun job unless you have access to a reasonably warm wiork space.

Lack of heat couild be a different issue if the coolant system is full. What is your temp gauge showing?

In sub freezing weather it may take 5 miles or more before you see significant heat. Of the t-stat is stuck open you may never see real heat in zero degree weather.

 

[over45]

Coolant system reservoir is empty. Temp gauge is working and running between 183-187 or so. I just drove the car last night about 40 minutes each way in stop and go traffic and the thermostat was working showing the same temps. I was watching it because my heat wasn't working and someone said I should look at the engine temps. I'ts almost like the coolant in the reservoir leaks out but the remainder in the engine stays - at least that what it seems like. I am guessing the stuff I put in this morning came right back out. The engine would overheat if it didn't have enough coolant... wouldn't it? Tks

 

[imidazol97]

What is the most likely cause of this? Tks

What year is your car?
Where are you located, temperature-wise.

If it's coming off the engine in that area it could be a water pump leaking, or either of the two plastic coolant heater bypass tubes or o-rings on the ends of each. You need to take a good look with the engine off after driving it and warming it up so there's some pressure.

It could be the reservoir that has cracked and is leaking.

Did you check coolant level inside the radiator itself? Make sure it's full.

The look for the coolant water trail. A water pump leak can trail off the fins of the pump housing and track down the engine.

 

[DonP]

What year is your LeSabre?

187 coolant temp should provide good heat.

Low on coolant can result in overheating if low enough
Low on coolant may cause poor heat (no flow through heater core).
If the reservoir empties, but coolant level is normal in the radiator check if the reservoir has a leak.

Lack of heat could be a clogged heater core. A possibility if certain types of stop-leak are used in the system How do the heater hoses feel?

It also could be an issue with the air flow controls in the HVAC; the air control doors might not be positioned properly for heat (e.g., the air flows through the A/C coil side only.)

#1 is to find the point of coolant loss and fix it. Cars will over heat even in the teeth of winter.

 

[over45]

2001. Raleigh, NC and we are having a cold snap. Coolant in radiator is low. No leak from reservoir. No leak from bypass elbow w/ O-rings. Odd that the thing isn't overheating... isn't it? This isn't the first time I have added coolant to the reservoir but never seen the leak like that before... maybe it was a slow leak and blew out last night??

Sounding like water pump more and more? Tks for your help.

 

[DonP]

Odd that the thing isn't overheating... isn't it?

As long as there is coolant feeding the pump so it is not sucking air it will likely be OK in cool weather.

If you have not already, try taking the belt off the water pump and feel for excessive play in the pump shaft. In some cases you may even hear a scraping noise when it is turned. If the pump is early stages of failure there may be leaking only while the coolant is hot and under some pressure.

 

[over45]

so... the mechanic went to install a water pump and found out that there is a plastic/rubber elbow back behind the water pump area and it was leaking. says that the part is cheap but the labor is alot more. says there are alot of parts that have to come off to change it.

what would be a fair price to pay to get that elbow replaced?

there is another elbow up higher which is what I thought a previous poster was mentioning... so my apologies to them.

 

[gnhbodyguy]

You should not have to pay more than $100.

"a lot of parts that have to come off" is an exaggeration.

Make sure they use AC Delco elbows.

$75 is a fair deal.

Skip the water pump install if it is only the elbows.

 

[over45]

Tks. I think I got taken advantage of slightly - came out with one price and jacked it up after seeing cause. Not sure I can argue with them on price since I agreed to it already (they have car now) - but may try.

 

[imidazol97]

what would be a fair price to pay to get that elbow replaced?

there is another elbow up higher which is what I thought a previous poster was mentioning... so my apologies to them.

Those were the elbows that I pointed out as leakers, either the elbow cracked or the o-rings leak. There are two.

Your water pump might not have to come off to get to the elbows, depending on the car year, if the pump isn't showing wear.

Get the metal elbows by Dorman. They're made of aluminum and have better o-ring duration, at least that's the reports. About 10$.

To replace, probably need to remove the alternator (3-4 bolts) and the tensioner which has the elbows going into it (3 bolts). Drain and refill coolant before removing tensioner or it will drain out for you. Either way works if your floor is coolant friendly. About 1 hour.

 

[Spriteman]

Have they started the work? If not, tell them either they get the price down to around $100 or so OR you're going to take it to another shop.

If they haven't started the work you don't owe them anything unless they told you up front there was a diagnosis fee.

As imidazol97 says - you only have to remove the alternator and the tensioner. Those should take just a few minutes to remove.

You can buy the Dorman aluminum elbows at Autozone and take it somewhere else.

Have they given you an actual quote for doing the work? Don't let them start the work without a quote. Any shop that's capable of doing the work should know what it takes time wise to do the job and the parts required.

It sounds like these guys are trying to make you believe it's a way bigger job than it really is.

 

[over45]

i am stuck paying them - they have my car and say it's almost done. they came to look at it thinking that it was the water pump - a job they quoted me a very fair price on - but I think they wanted more and when they saw this after taking off the the belt and digging a little - saw some opportunity for a better wage. they will get my opinion when i pick it up -- but lesson learned on my side.

 

[DonP]

FWIW: flat rate for tensioner replacement on the ALLDATADIY site is 1.2 hours skill level C, and 1.8 hours skilllevel B for the water pump replacement. My impression from having done both on an '04 is that the pump replacement is a bit easier repair.

 

[over45]

well - picked the car up this am and they told me that when they fixed the elbow leak, coolant started to run out of the rear head gasket. drove it about 4 miles and noticed some smoke (burning off coolant I reasoned) and checked the temp which got up to 224 so I pulled over. Checked coolant and nearly gone. Someone just shoot me.

so... I am very unhappy with mechanic but I guess I should not be. Makes sense that if one leak is plugged the fluid will find a way out if there is another compromised area.

guess I will try a bottle of head gasket repair - don't want to but that's where I am at unless anyone has another suggestion...

 

[imidazol97]

well - picked the car up this am and they told me that when they fixed the elbow leak, coolant started to run out of the rear head gasket.

Head gasket problems are really rare on the 3800's. I could buy it more that it's the gasket between the aluminum lower intake manifold and the head.

What is the history on this car? Miles? Earlier repairs on the upper and lower intake?


If it's the upper leaking, which would be at the throttle body ends, the only place where coolant is present

http://www.ineedparts.com/gm-intake-sure-fix-manifold-kit.html

Gaskets between lower metal intake and head usually should be the aluminum framed GM version. Some used the FelPro steel framed version. Here's what appears to be metal framed from ineedparts.com, the APN parts group.

http://www.ineedparts.com/96-08-lower-intake-gasket-set-3800-v-6-permadryplus.html

Take a good look at the place you're seeing coolant flow out to determine if it's between the intake and head or the head to the block.

Good luck.

 

[over45]

i honestly didn't look at the leak now but when I get it home I will. Should I be worried that I drove it for a little bit with the temp getting up to 224?

as far as the history goes - it is a long history. car has 138k miles now. have had an ongoing issue with cyl#5 misfire and a coolant leak that has gotten progressively worse over the last few months. I noticed the coolant reservoir low and then empty a few times and added to it, and then a few days ago saw a large puddle and leak. was told it was the water pump, then not the water pump but the elbow, and now it is flowing out the rear of the engine which I was told is the head gasket. maybe i misunderstood the exact gasket.

any recommendations on stuff to pour in it to try and fix the leak(s)?

 

[imidazol97]

i honestly didn't look at the leak now but when I get it home I will. Should I be worried that I drove it for a little bit with the temp getting up to 224?

I would be wary after driving it. With water low, was the temperature a true reading?

any recommendations on stuff to pour in it to try and fix the leak(s)?

Although it may hurt, I'd rather see you find out what the leak is and hopefully it's the lower intake gaskets where they meet the head. That's more easiy repairable. A leak stop may clog your heater.

The cylinder 5 miss may be a sign that your lower intake gasket was letting coolant into the cylinder fouling the plug. Luckily you haven't had it leak into the cylinder with the engine off and hydrolock the engine.

Is the oil milky looking from coolant having gotten into it?