Fuel pressure regulator elbow

[shrewz92]

Son had 97 Lesabre at a friend's apartment. Ran well down, but, when time to leave, the engine would spin, but not turn over. Like it wasn't receiving fuel. AAA towed him home, and I did some quick look over after I got home from work.
Key on: I heard fuel pump charge up, but at end of pressurization cycle, it took on a lower tone of sound. So, 3 seconds of high pitch "eeeee" which sounded normal, with 2 ending seconds of low "uhhhh," not quite normal.

Battery shows 12.58 volts. I have interior lights and idiot lights.

I took off beauty cover and looked for leaks, but found this big RIP on the fuel pressure regulator elbow. (I replaced that in May 2020, when the previous one was cracking and disintegrating, using a Dorman generic variety pack.) Would a big crack allow enough of a leak to stop the regulator from working? Picture, below.
I lost light, prior to posting this. The doctoring of the bend was in May 2020, prevent it from rubbing, melting, since the GM equivalent part wasn't available.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Homer Jay]

Unlikely that is causing a no start, it would run but poorly.
Do you have fuel at the rail?
Also check for spark.

 

[HotZ28]

What is the fuel pressure?

 

[shrewz92]

Thanks, folks.

I was working against daylight when I found that tear. It not being the issue is a worry. I suppose it's never easy, really...

Helpful information would have been: the Fuel Pump was replaced in May 2021 with a new pump by local Firestone.

I have to rent fuel pressure gauge, and have to check for spark, also. I needed a 2nd body to hit the switch, and didn't have him available!

Will report back what I figure out, as time allows.

 

[shrewz92]

Fuel pressure: 35 - 44, on 3 tries. Since this a base Custom, I found pressure to be in the specifications.

Used Noid light on all 6 injector connectors. All showed current.

Pulled spark plug lines off coil packs. Spark across all 6 terminals.

Added 5 gals fuel, starts more smoothly, but won't sustain idle.

Reviewed fuel pump replacement bill...doesn't show fuel filter replacement.... seems like that would have been an offered item (double the cost and add 30 mins of shoptime at $100/hour). I may attempt that, tomorrow...

Thoughts?

 

[02LTD]

Fuel pressure: 35 - 44, on 3 tries. Since this a base Custom, I found pressure to be in the specifications.

Used Noid light on all 6 injector connectors. All showed current.

Pulled spark plug lines off coil packs. Spark across all 6 terminals.

Added 5 gals fuel, starts more smoothly, but won't sustain idle.

Reviewed fuel pump replacement bill...doesn't show fuel filter replacement.... seems like that would have been an offered item (double the cost and add 30 mins of shoptime at $100/hour). I may attempt that, tomorrow...

Thoughts?

Be prepared to fix the fuel line if you attempt to replace the fuel filter. You could try soaking it with penetrating oil for a day or so but if it’s the original filter it’s probably rusted to the line. There are fuel line repair kits available at most auto parts stores. I’ve had good luck with them.😎

 

[02LTD]

Son had 97 Lesabre at a friend's apartment. Ran well down, but, when time to leave, the engine would spin, but not turn over. Like it wasn't receiving fuel. AAA towed him home, and I did some quick look over after I got home from work.
Key on: I heard fuel pump charge up, but at end of pressurization cycle, it took on a lower tone of sound. So, 3 seconds of high pitch "eeeee" which sounded normal, with 2 ending seconds of low "uhhhh," not quite normal.

Battery shows 12.58 volts. I have interior lights and idiot lights.

I took off beauty cover and looked for leaks, but found this big RIP on the fuel pressure regulator elbow. (I replaced that in May 2020, when the previous one was cracking and disintegrating, using a Dorman generic variety pack.) Would a big crack allow enough of a leak to stop the regulator from working? Picture, below. View attachment 42925
I lost light, prior to posting this. The doctoring of the bend was in May 2020, prevent it from rubbing, melting, since the GM equivalent part wasn't available.

Thanks for the help.

Buy a t lest a couple of feet of vacuum tubing at your local parts store and repair that connection properly. You can find the appropriate tee-fittings in the “help” section of Auto Zone. They are from Dorman. In-metered air after the Mass Airflow Sensor will cause problems. Another thing to consider buying is a good code reader/scanner that shows LIVE data such as fuel trims and MAF readings.

 

[shrewz92]

Thank you, @02LTD.

I have an autel and CRP123 which each show live data. What are the numbers I am looking for, in regards to MAF and fuel trim? At present, she won't idle for more than 15 seconds, in a stumbling manner, so those readings are a ways off, still. Fuel delivery is paramount, now.

The fuel filter has a screw-in fitting on the inlet, with no extension to allow for a fuel line connection. Is the suggestion to obtain an old school 3/8 inline filter, and plumb that in, in place of the recommended filter? I am confused on the addition of vacuum line to do "that connection properly." Where would that connection be? Thank you for the suggestions.

 

[02LTD]

The vacuum connection is from your throttle body to the FPR and the purge valve.

 

[02LTD]

This is what you need

More Information for GM GENUINE 24506640

I fixed mine with vacuum tubing and some tee connectors from Dorman

 

[02LTD]

Forget the fuel filter for now. If you’re getting those pressures at the fuel rail then your fuel filter is obviously allowing fuel to flow. Try repairing that vacuum line and take it from there. You could also try disconnecting the MAF sensor. If it starts and runs your MAF may be dirty or need replacing.

 

[shrewz92]

Ok, update.
(For background: Car positioned, street side, nose down angle, about 10 degrees of street incline. This is where tow driver left it. Our driveway is a steep incline.)

I changed out the fuel filter. It was an aftermarket one, but, no date on it. Puked out gray and black fuel, so I feel good about its replacement.

Tested coils : removed plug wires, and spark would jump the terminals. Car would start and run with two disconnected. With all 6 connected, car started and idled. Son drove it down the subdivision, and back up to the driveway.

I started to Autozone, where my part time boss works, who had suggested testing to try. I wanted to show him we got it working. 3/4 mile from house, after driving up an incline, she sputtered and died after I pulled into a parking lot. Remembering the 2 less wire trick, I fired up the car after disconnecting the two plug wires, and limped home on 4 cylinders. She died, in front of house. I disconnected the quick release end of the fuel filter, and blew back into the pump, thinking that MIGHT move the obstruction. No joy.

Son and I maneuvered her to the curb, two wheels in yard, and two on street, with passenger door higher than driver door. I still think that something / debris is being sucked into fuel pump, at certain angles. We leave it sitting, and told my part time boss, Frank, what happened. He said he would think on it. (Frank worked 18 years as an auto mechanic, worked for a battery mfg company, and has been an Autozone manager for 18 years.)

Came home from church and Frank said to try 2 things, and he said he had only seen them twice prevent a car from starting: low coolant sensor and AC high pressure switch. Each uses a 5v signal. A 2.5v reference prevented those other two cars from starting. Find those, and disconnect them one at a time, try starting after each. I found the ac high pressure switch, disconnected it...no start, just stumble....☹. I reconnected the plug with a little rerouting.

Looked for low coolant switch, but our Custom doesn't have one that I could find, on radiator, nor by overflow tank. Found where one COULD have been installed, below the fill neck, but there was no wiring, thus my belief there is no low coolant sensor in the Custom.

I lowered the hood, said we'd let Frank know we tried both of his thoughts. Son shrugged and went to lock up the car. While in, he hit the key, and it started!!!! Ran smoothly, no hesitations. We let it idle for 4 mins. We put it in drive, no stall. I told him to pull into driveway. It pulled the incline to the top, no complaints, no stalling, nor stumbling...just like old times. We let it run, and turned on the AC. Kept on running.

So, we shut down after 15 mins, and hit the key, immediately after shut down, and it started. So, I told him to come back out tonight, before bed, and try starting it, again, (to see if the debris resettled near the fuel pickup, and)to see if she would start.

@02LTD: I looked at those vacuum lines. Ours show no cracks, but someone Mcgyvered a vacuum connection to Fuel pressure regulator and evap, before we got her.

More in the coming day.

 

[02LTD]

Sounds like you got lucky. Hope your luck “holds”. By the way your mechanic friend may have been referring to the coolant TEMPERATURE sensor which is located by the thermostat.

 

[HotZ28]

Coolant temp sensor & and AC high pressure switch has nothing to do with an engine not starting!!

 

[shrewz92]

@HotZ28: That was my thinking also, but Frank said that he had only seen that happen twice before, in his mechanic's career. He said the reference voltage on those two should be 5v. In those two previous instances, the reference voltages were 2.5v. I have very little electrical experience, and am desperate to revive the LeSabre for my son to get to work, in his own car, and prep for its selling. He's getting gun-shy of it spontaneously not working. It started up and idled with no issues at 545am, but I didn't take it for a drive. I, too, am gun-shy of it...kinda.

 

[#JoeJoe]

Be prepared to fix the fuel line if you attempt to replace the fuel filter. You could try soaking it with penetrating oil for a day or so but if it’s the original filter it’s probably rusted to the line. There are fuel line repair kits available at most auto parts stores. I’ve had good luck with them.😎

0294480

 

[shrewz92]

Day 5 of the ordeal:
After my part-time gig at AutoZone, I started the LeSabre at 815p, and it started up and idled very smoothly. I have a Konnwei digital guage (https://www.amazon.com/KONNWEI-Auto...cphy=9013464&hvtargid=pla-1237866981118&psc=1) which I have set to show Coolant Temp, Fuel Trim, Battery Voltage, Speed and RPM. The fuel trim, at 1200 rpm start-up idle, was 12.7% for short-term trim (running rich, or do I have that backwards?), until warming up, and after reaching approx 170degrees was reading 7%. Idle was at 860 rpm, which I think is a little high, but I know that it's always idled high, even after cleaning the Throttle body and EGR passages. (Before The no-idle issue, trims, at temp were +2.3% to -2.3% @ 55mph.)

Short drive around subdivision, tonight, after day-job ends. Should be fun, exciting, and a little stressful!

 

[02LTD]

As long as your fuel trims are within 10 percent you’re good. What’s the MAF reading?

 

[shrewz92]

@02LTD > Hmmmm...I don't know.

Should the reading be taken at normal operating temp, or, is cold start, rising temp, ok?

 

[02LTD]

@02LTD > Hmmmm...I don't know.

Should the reading be taken at normal operating temp, or, is cold start, rising temp, ok?

Idle