Will not shift out of Park

[EarlD]

Have had great success with guidance given here before. Have a Haynes Repair Manual which lists Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile '85 - '05. All prior questions have been regarding my Park Avenue, thought I'd give a shot on my Olds.

It will not shift out of Park - 1994 Royale 88 with 3800 engine.

Have checked fuse and checked brake lights and both ok.

Tried the owners manual procedure of turning off car, opening the drivers door, foot on brake, move shift to neutral and start vehicle. It will not move out of P to start the vehicle.

Have tried moving the ignition key just one click (not starting the car) and trying to shift. No go.

Have always had foot on brake when trying to shift and have moved steering wheel to unlock.

Any guidance will be appreciated.

 

[Drakito]

I have heard of paring pawls getting stuck if it was on a hill. You can try rocking the vehicle forward or backward as far as possible, then set the e-brake to take the tension off the pawl. It's kinda like when you turn your wheel all the way to one side and the steering lock engages, but takes he-man to move the wheel enough to disengage it.
Other things that go out can be a broken shift release lock on the cable at the steering wheel, and the solenoid that controls the lock if its electric.

 

[EarlD]

Thanks Drakito, I did as you suggested, actually pulled the car a couple of inches forward, put the parking brake on with tension still on the rope I used to pull the car forward - still stuck in park. Released the tension and the parking brake - still stuck in park.

Moved the car once prior to it sticking in park and it was on a very slight incline and was a little hard coming out of park. The car stuck in park while on completely flat land. Knowing that,
would you think it may be in the parking pawls area or would you lean more to a switch being bad since I did the parking brake routine that you recommended?

I don't know if it is a cable or a rod that actually does the shifting at the transaxle, but if that is loose or broken would that cause the shift lever to stick in park? I wouldn't think so but don't really know.

Thanks again

 

[MelsRegal]

did you follow the procedure on page 90 of the owners manual?
http://www.vadengmpp.com/owners-manual/buick/1994-Buick-ParkAvenue.pdf

 

[EarlD]

MelsRegal, yes I did do as the manual suggested as well as the other steps outlined in my initial post.

 

[EarlD]

It is remarkable how little information on this subject is on the internet - basically none.

What I have been able to glean from researching is that I could have a pairing pawls problem as suggested by Drakito - which I think I have eliminated, but not totally sure, or possibly a transaxle lock cable problem or a shift lock solenoid.

Since the shift lever will hardly move at all when trying to move it out of Park, I think the odds would be with the shift lock solenoid.

I have found zero information on where the solenoid is or how to get to it or if it can be tested to see if the problem is in fact the solenoid. I gather that there is a slide or something similar that until the brake pedal is pressed is in a position to keep the shift leveler from moving out of part. Can't find information on whether this slide is part of the solenoid or if they are separate.

I have taken the lower part of the driver's side dash off and I am still clueless as to what I should be looking at/for. I do see two switches on the brake pedal. If one of those is the shift lock solenoid, then the slide which locks the lever would be a separate item, which would mean it would have to also have a solenoid of some type.

I see no way to get the cover off the steering wheel column unless perhaps the steering wheel itself is removed and the covers are slide up and off the column - hope that isn't the case.

Could/would someone please point me in the right direction?

Thanks

 

[Drakito]

Yeah, the old 90's GM's did require the steering wheel to be removed to get to anything in the column, they were a pain to do anything in there. At least you shouldn't have an airbag, but it was an option back then, so you just might.

If you have 2 switches on the brake pedal 1 will be the brake lights, the second *could* be the parking solenoid control, but could also be the cruise control cancel. If you have a multimeter you can test and make sure they are both working fairly easily. They should both be 12V switches.

I've found the parking cable for this car has 3 versions, 1 with a mechanical pin that is disengaged when the key is turned. It is bolted inside the column to both the key cylinder and the shift mechanism. The second that bolts directly to the shifter with the shift mechanism being bolted to the key cylinder and the lock being internal inside the mechanism. The third has a large black tubular deal on the cable itself and will have 2 wires going into it. The electric shift one is located under the dash near the column.

You can bypass the cable entirely by going straight to the transmission. The cable is bolted on to a sector arm underneath the brake booster and towards the firewall. Take the cable bolt off, then take the cable mount off, usually 2-4 bolts. You can then manipulate the sector arm directly by hand. It will be firm, but should be able to be moved manually. If doing this and the arm still doesn't move you have isolated it to inside the transmission, it could be the pawl, or something worse. You can jack the front end up to take all pressure off the drive wheels, then try moving them a little to see if it is the pawl.

If it does move, you have isolated the car side, be it cable, lock, or shift mechanism. Just work backwards from there to figure it out.

One more thing, make sure and chock your rear tires before you attempt to manually shift it at the trans or jack it up to remove any drive wheel tension.

 

[EarlD]

Thanks Drakito,

The Haynes manual I have gives some instruction on removing the steering wheel but nothing really past that. No mention anywhere regarding the shift lock solenoid. My car does have an airbag but the manual has (hopefully correct) instructions on dealing with that. As a note, I have really really been disappointed in the Haynes manual, for some work I have had to do the manual is just incorrect causing me to do some time consuming work which was not at all necessary.

Regarding the shift lock solenoid. Am I correct with the understanding that there is a "slide" or something to that affect that is either in or not in some part of the shift lever to allow or not allow it to move out of park? And, if there is such a slide, how would the shift lock solenoid move that slide if the solenoid is on the brake pedal?

If I do get the steering wheel off and expose the column, should I look for something that locks the shift lever - I guess, what do I look for?

Thanks

 

[Drakito]

I hate Haynes and Chilton manuals. I used to use them about 20 years ago, but they have been let downs on every car I have bought one for since then. Now I get the Factory Service Manuals, either from a forum or ebay. All my vehicles except the Buick I was able to get either for free or for under $20 digitally online. The Buicks 3 book set was about $120, but came with all the latest updates, etc. Still new in box.


The shift lock, if it is electric, has a switch that sends power to the lock. Once powered it retracts a "slide" as you put it, or lock, out of the way, so the cable can then be moved.
If it is mechanical it is based on the key. Both mechanical versions have the key cylinder moving the shift lock pin out of the way so the cable or mechanism can be moved.

Have you tried jacking it up and bypassing the cable yet?

 

[pila80]

I haven't looked into it, but my '93 seems to be actuated by the brake, pushing the pedal a bit makes the sound of a solenoid, or relay etc..

 

[EarlD]

Drakito, I did jack the car and the car would not come out of Park even with the engine running and foot on the brake. I did find it interesting that if you rotate one wheel forward the other turns the opposite way. After think about that, it seems right as that would keep a car from rolling up or down hill with just the car in park - but that my also be what the parking pawls are supposed to do. To your knowledge, should the wheels react as I described or does that indicate a transaxle problem?

From everything I have been able to locate, the shift lock solenoid is electric. I did take the steering wheel off and go down into the column to the tilt part - stopped there. I could see parts moving inside the column when I turned the key, so even with an electric solenoid, the key moves parts inside the column even if the solenoid does not work. The shaft lock (keeps the steering wheel from turning) works by turning the key even with the battery disconnected.

I just find it hard to believe that GM would put the solenoid inside the column making it impossible to replace the solenoid without taking the tilt section of the column off the vehicle. However, I have found somethings on my Buick and Oldsmobile which seem ridiculous when compared to the way the same thing is repaired on my Chrysler Town and Country.

I have posted a separate thread asking if anyone know the actual location of the solenoid. Hopefully, someone does and will answer. If I get this thing fixed, I am going to post how it was fixed so someone out there may benefit from my experience. Still amazed at the next to nothing information out there on this subject.

pila80, the brake switch was the first thing I did - I replaced it. As I understand it, pressing the brake pedal activates the brake light switch which turns the brakes lights on and at the same time sends a signal to the brake transmission shift interlock solenoid telling the solenoid to activate, thereby allowing the shift lever to be moved out of park. From what I have been told, the solenoid activating is the clicking sound - the brake switch does not click. Thanks for the input.

Thanks to you also, Drakito

 

[MelsRegal]

Have you tried if it still is locked with a disconnected battery?

 

[Drakito]

The wheels rotating in opposite directions is the stock "open" differential. It allows both tires to counter rotate when the wheels are unloaded. If you put on down on the ground the other will not move at all.
The parking pawl can still be stuck still based on how the differential gear design is on the 4t65E

Have you disconnected the cable yet to isolate where the lock is.

 

[EarlD]

MelsRegal, yes I have tried it with the battery disconnected and connected. Every test I can find to conduct has been done with the battery connected and disconnected.

 

[EarlD]

Drakito, I have not disconnect the cable - I am assuming you mean the cable that runs to the transmission shift lever, the one that is held in place by a bracket and the cable is attached to a flat lever about 5 inches long and 2 inches wide and the cable just kinda snaps down onto a prong that sticks up from the lever?

Two reasons I haven't. The Buick dealership advised to be extremely careful in removing the cable from the lever because of how old the cable is, that attaching point being plastic, and the thing will probably break when removing it - the problems then being huge. The other reason is that once disconnected, what do I do, what do I look for, etc.?

Could you tell me how disconnecting that cable - if the cable I described is the one you are talking about - will help isolate where the lock is.

I was sent the following diagram of where the solenoid is supposed to be located but I cannot relate the diagram to my column.

 

[Drakito]

I am assuming you mean the cable that runs to the transmission shift lever, the one that is held in place by a bracket and the cable is attached to a flat lever about 5 inches long and 2 inches wide and the cable just kinda snaps down onto a prong that sticks up from the lever?

Yes, exactly.

You can then manipulate the sector arm directly by hand. It will be firm, but should be able to be moved manually. If doing this and the arm still doesn't move you have isolated it to inside the transmission, it could be the pawl, or something worse. You can jack the front end up to take all pressure off the drive wheels, then try moving them a little to see if it is the pawl.

If it does move, you have isolated the car side, be it cable, lock, or shift mechanism. Just work backwards from there to figure it out.

I understand your trepidation on the plastic mount breaking, but there are replacement ends available without having to get an all new cable. https://www.bushingfix.com/oldsmobile-delta-88-shift-cable-bushing-repair-kit/

In your diagram it should be near the firewall side of the column. You should see the shift cable in the underdash area and can follow it to the mounts on the column. The solenoid is mounted right there in the mount.

 

[EarlD]

Drakito, I missed your last post as I didn't know this thread had gone to page 2. Great news on the cable, but if you note the below comments, I think I have isolated my problem to the solenoid. If you read the following and think otherwise I'd appreciate your comments.

I came back and edited this post. After thinking about the cable, and since the car is now out of Park, I put the car in drive and reverse gears and both worked fine. I would assume that would eliminate the cable? If not please let me know.

I put another thread out about the solenoid location and GunnyP provided me with the diagram. I made this comment in the other thread:

I appreciate the diagram GunnyP provided and it did lead to me locating the solenoid. My bad, but looking at the diagram, I made the wrong assumption that the solenoid was either on or very near the steering column. The solenoid bottom is about 3 inches away from the column and the top about 6 inches away as the solenoid is attached to a bracket at an angle with the top of the solenoid pointing away from the column. The solenoid is located near the bottom of the column on the left side, up toward the dash.

I also made the incorrect assumption that I was looking for something which looked like the replacement solenoid on Advance Auto's website. The solenoid on the car is an aluminum canister type affair, just like the diagram depicts. The solenoid from Advance is dark in color and appears to be plastic. My error.

I did as the text of the diagram stated and unbolted the solenoid from the bracket (10mm socket) and eventually moved the solenoid as far as I could toward the column. Still stuck in Park.

I asked my wife to touch/hold the solenoid while I pressed the brake to see if she could feel any movement of the solenoid. She did not. I tried the brake with the ignition on and off.

The diagram gave me a little impression that the solenoid is accessible. The bottom is very visible but then the bracket on which the solenoid is bolted blocks any view of the top of the solenoid. When I made the adjustments as recommended in the diagram text, I noticed a little movement of an aluminum hook-like appearing something, through a small hole in the bracket. I appeared that moving the solenoid toward the column moved or adjusted the location of this hook. I stuck a long flat tip screwdriver through the hole in the bracket and asked my wife to press the brake and attempt to shift out of Park. After some manipulation of the hook, she was able to shift out of Park.

The diagram text states that after all 1/8" adjustments have been made - which I did - to remove the steering column to a bench for final adjustments. I definitely do not want to remove the steering column.

Since all tests I have made, I am very confident that the solenoid is bad. I am very hesitate to just pull the solenoid out even if I can. I don't know if the plunger/piston part of the solenoid is attached to something or if it just pushes up against something and moves whatever when the piston moves up or down.

If anyone has any experience in replacing the solenoid I would appreciate any guidance. Does the steering column have to be removed to replace the solenoid? That is my major concern right now.

This is an edit: The end result - no one sells this solenoid. I tried Summit, Advance, Auto Zone and LKQ. I don't want to buy one even if I can find it because I would be concerned that it would be the correct solenoid. I never thought about determining if anyone sold the things prior to all of this.

I am going to attempt to tie the hook described above in an "up" position and bypass the solenoid.

Thanks to everyone for the help!!


Thanks

 

[EarlD]

Last installment in the event someone finds themselves in my situation.

As mentioned earlier, there are two wires green with white stripe and the other black which run from the large wire connections box which is located at about the same level as the solenoid but toward the driver's seat away from the solenoid. If you probe these wires (mine were so old and hard I could not stick a pin into them - had to actually strip away some of the outer coating of the wire) with the ignition off the voltage is 0.05v. Once the ignition is turned on the voltage is 11.4v.

It appears to me that if you get the 11.4v and the car will not shift out of Park you have a bad solenoid.

The solenoid would be very difficult to replace/change out even if you can find a solenoid. So, I just took the solenoid out and bypassed that safety feature.

To remove the solenoid:

1. Disconnect the wiring connection from the connector using a 9/32 socket and move out of the way. Removing will afford better access to the solenoid.

2. Remove the two 10mm bolts holding the solenoid to bracket. The solenoid is actually secured to a flat metal plate which is held to the bracket by the two 10mm bolts.

3. Remove the two T15 screws securing the solenoid to the solenoid plate.

4. At this point you should be able to remove the flat plate, the solenoid and the small bracket held on by the two T15 screws.

5. Reconnect the wiring, replace under dash and dash part removed and you are good to go. Go will shift into and out of Park and Park will never know the solenoid is not there.

 

[Drakito]

Awesome! Glad you got it figured out.

 

[pila80]

Sounds like a good plan !!😉