Dead Buick

[EDSELRANGER]

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I first put this post in the What are the things you like or love about your Buick LaCrosse? thread because I really do like my LaCrosse. I like lots of things about it. They far outweigh the things I don't like about it. I must like it... I'm about to dump a BIG pile of money into it. Anyway, seemed like a new thread would be more appropriate.

One week ago, after taking the utmost care of it for the last 8 years (2015 fresh off a 2yr lease), it let me down. I was on my way to work (approximately 75 miles from home) when it just plain died. No warning, no weird noises, it just quit running and I coasted to a stop, thankfully on a very sparsely traveled road.

Had it towed to a nearby Buick dealership; didn't know what else to do. I was due to be at work in short order with no time to baby sit the car or research service options. The Buick place said their bays were already booked up through the next couple weeks but they'd do what they could.

A few days later they said it was a fuel pressure issue. Evidently the fuel pump was putting out plenty of pressure but the lines/rails had somehow become clogged. They said the fuel in the tank was BAD, real bad, dark and cloudy. So... they drained the tank, added new fuel and eventually got the car running. But it would not run well.

Next they told me that the sparkplugs were completely fouled/black due to the bad fuel and would need to be replaced. I had just had them replaced a few months ago. Bummer.

Next message I got from them was a bit more ominous. The Service Manager said that upon removing the intake manifold (necessary to do rear 3 plugs), their mechanic discovered a valve that had dropped out of its seat and broken, dispersing metal through out the head and presumably damaging the camshaft etc. They advised me the engine was not worth digging into any further and needed to be replaced.

At this point, I'm waiting for a 'used' replacement engine to be delivered and installed. Don't see how I have much choice other than donating it to 'Our Ladies of the Heartbreak of Psoriasis' and letting them tow it away. I figure the bill is going to be just a tad less than what the KBB value of the car is. And that's not counting the rental car I've had since this fiasco began.

I don't know how this 'bad fuel' issue could have possibly morphed into a ruined engine. I don't know if it's all just some kind of horrible coincidence. I don't know if the dealership people are straight shooters or shysters. All I know is I'm screwed. We'll see how this plays out and how well this 'used' engine (70,000 miles on it supposedly) works out. The sales staff at the dealership are trying to talk me into a Encore or Enclave or some such. Fat chance.

 

[FrogFan]

This seems incredible to me. I'm curious if anyone can relate bad fuel to the kind of engine damage you experienced. If it can be traced to bad fuel, then it seems like you have a claim against the station that sold you the fuel.

How many miles are on the car? Was there lurking engine damage before the fuel incident?

I've been trying to develop a replacement calculus for my 2013 for awhile now, and I've described my thinking elsewhere on this site. For me, it boils down to comparing the total cash outflow over some realistic time frame, say 5-10 years, if you fix the car and keep paying to maintain it to the cash outflow over that same time period if you get a different car and maintain it, adjusted for the salvage value of the old car. The numbers I get keep telling me to keep my 2013, but I've never factored in the cost of a catastrophic failure like you've experienced.

If your type of failure is likely on mine over the next 5 years or so, I'm pretty sure the numbers would tell me to bail out of the Lacrosse.

Mine has 115K on the clock and it's never had any engine issues. It accelerates strongly and doesn't burn a drop of oil.

And I agree: When I replace mine, it won't be with an Encore or and Envision.

 

[EDSELRANGER]

Hi FrogFan... I've done similar calculations, new car, leased car, used car etc. trying to figure out least expensive way to go. The catastrophic failure like I had is not something I considered.

To address your questions, my 2015 LaCrosse had approximately 130,000 miles IIRC. I had plans to replace the timing chain as a preventative maintenance item. I'd heard that was a weak link (NPI) in the 3.6 engine. Also heard that best way to extend timing chain life was using good oil and keeping it topped off. Always did just that. All oil changes on or ahead of schedule with Mobil Dexos full synthetic.

Not a hint of anything wrong before the failure. No oil burn, no noises, just a smooth powerful ride, right up until it died. And by the way, I mentioned that this all happened 75 miles from home on my way to work. I make that trip once or twice a week, sometimes less. Almost all of the miles on the car are from highway driving (if that really matters as much as 'they' say).

And I see no connection between the (supposed) bad fuel and the dropped/broken valve. I have no idea why this happened and the service department has no explanation either. I've researched the 'reviews' of this dealership out of curiosity. Other than a few complaints, the service department seem to have a very satisfied bunch of customers. I'm hoping for the best.

I'll be back to let anyone know here (who might be interested) how this comes out.

 

[Human]

I fully understand the calculation of repair vs. replacement. I got an earful from my sisters mother-in-law about spending some $2,800 to replace the timing set on my 2013 LaCrosse. She was strongly of the opinion that I should have just dumped the car and replaced it, despite the fact that replacing the car would easily have cost me ten times as much. The car had about 84,000 miles on it at the time. Yesterday, it turned 131,000, so I think I made the right decision, but I am increasingly aware that it's not going to last forever.

 

[EDSELRANGER]

Yes Human, despite the opposition, you made a tough decision but it certainly turned out to be the right one. I hope mine was too.

Got a ride from work to pick up my car this past Wednesday. The dealership told me the engine install was done successfully and everything had been thoroughly checked... "You're good to go!" they told me.

Got on the highway just it time to discover the A/C wasn't working... at all. Got off at the next exit and went right back to the shop.

"You can drop it off and we'll check it out in the morning" the Service Manager said after I told him the A/C was inop. It was closing in on 5pm by then and I'm sure they were looking forward to Miller time.

Pissed me off of course because my ride was long gone by then and I had no choice but to drive the car home in the near 90 degree heat and bring it back again on my next trip to work. What pissed me off more though was the Service Manager asking me if the A/C worked before. A sufficiently insulting question to merit a punch in the face. (The specter of my unfixed car told me to save any possible punches until later.)

Anyway, I considered trouble shooting it myself, checking refrigerant etc but decided to leave the onus of repair on them. I did not want to take a chance of possibly voiding any work that was supposedly under warrantee.

Dropped the car back off again on Monday morning and got someone to give me a ride into work. Tuesday afternoon and no calls/feedback on the status of my car, I contacted them.

"It was just an electrical plug that had not seated correctly" I was told. "All fixed"

Seems like that could easily have been detected and remedied the first time. I'm out of town (work) until tomorrow afternoon, at which time I plan to pick up my car again. Not too impressed, but hoping for the best!

 

[FrogFan]

Here's hoping that when you pick up the car, all is well with it, and that repair and maintenance costs over the rest of its life don't exceed the cost of a new (or different) car.

Really disappointed to hear about your dealer experience. I've been going to the same dealer (where I bought the car new) since 2013. I've never gotten a smart-aleck response from any of the staff. I had it in for service quite awhile ago and when I picked it up, before closing time, I noticed the AC wasn't pumping out much cool air. I can't remember what they did to it that time, but I turned right around and told my service writer about it, and he immediately took the car back for a mechanic to look at it. Evidently, the refrigerant was low (I don't know why), so they recharged it with no charge to me and all was well for many miles. If an electrical plug had come loose, they would have discovered it.

I'm curious about what they replaced. Short/long block? What "stuff" did they reclaim and re-use from your dead engine? Alternator, AC compressor, intake/exhaust manifold, etc? I ask because I wondered if the AC compressor was your "old" one (which might have led to the smart-aleck response) or was it a "new" one that came with the engine?

I look forward to hearing about your experience when you pick up the car.

 

[EDSELRANGER]

I look forward to hearing about your experience when you pick up the car.

I'm looking forward to picking it up and having a decent ride again! I will keep you posted, but until then...

I asked them about the compressor etc when I dropped it off this last time. They told me that all accessories, alternator, compressor etc were transplanted from my old engine to the replacement. Don't really know what to believe at this point. I'm sure there are a lot of electrical connections to be plugged in and a bunch of hoses, lines and linkages that have to be hitched up. Not unreasonable to see how a few things might be missed. Still, like I said, any decent test drive should have detected that A/C issue.

As far as dealerships go.... I live a mile or two from a Buick Dealership. I did not buy the car from them, but have taken it to them for some services. I've had the oil changed there a few times (whenever they send me a coupon with a reasonable price), and I had the tranny fluid changed at around 100k mi. Had the plugs replace there and some front-end work too.

I've never been enamored with the idea of going to a dealership for regular maintenance but there are certain jobs I think they are best equipped to deal with. The shop near me seems to be pretty sharp, fair and square. Unfortunately, I was a long way from that shop when the car died. If I knew then what I know now, I would have had it towed/trailered the extra 70 miles to the place near home.

Flying home from Vegas tomorrow morning. When I get back, I'm hoping make the drive back home in the cool comfort of my good ol' LaCrosse. Still hoping for a decent outcome on this whole deal. If things go south with the replacement engine, and I get no satisfaction with warrantee etc, I will be back here with report. And at that time (heaven forbid), I won't be so elusive about dealership names etc.

 

[jeffbazell1]

For what it's worth, I had a 1990 Ford Probe once upon a time. The camshaft broke. It was still under warranty. The Ford dealer replaced the camshaft but when I went to turn on the a/c, no cool air, just the blower motor. I opened the hood and discovered that a mechanic forgot to plug in the compressor electrical connection. Or, perhaps he unplugged it to get me back to the dealership and charge me for an a/c repair? Shoddy work unfortunately hasn't ended. Sorry for your troubles.

 

[EDSELRANGER]

Made it to the dealership and picked it up Wednesday evening just before closing time. A/C works great so far. Again, they confirmed that the problem was an electrical plug that wasn't seated properly. According to the paperwork, part of their troubleshooting was to service the Freon/Refrigerant so that's a bonus. Engine runs smooth and everything seems to work so far.
I really like my LaCrosse and I hope this latest wheelbarrow full of money keeps it running for a while.
Keeping my fingers crossed...

 

[EDSELRANGER]

A year later and it died again... twice! All has been relatively well since the engine replacement. The only persistent problem was the 'Side Detection' warning was inop and the warning notice had to be cancelled after each start before any selections could be made... radio etc. Nothing I couldn't live with.

But a few weeks ago my 2015 LaCrosse let me down again. Out of nowhere, warning bells began to ring accompanied by every imaginable warning notice on the DIC. The gauge needles all went to zero, then back to their previous values over and over. I didn't notice any difference or interruption in engine power. I was able to drive the next few miles home into my driveway.

First likely culprit in my mind was the battery. Voltage showed good, maybe slightly lower than ideal. Check with lights on showed a bigger drop than I would have liked. With no way to load test it and knowing I had installed it four years ago, I decided to buy a new one. Car would not start at that point. Gauges would not even light up. Bummed a ride to the local NAPA and came home with new battery.

When I connected the negative cable at the end of the new battery install, I noticed a pretty healthy spark when the cable touched the terminal. Something shorted somewhere. I was able to get the car started and at first, things looked pretty normal. Alternator showed above 14 volts. After a couple of minutes, the gauges went wild again with all the warnings and DIC messages. While car was running, I drove it to the local Buick dealer. I figured if anyone could figure it out, they would be the ones.

Dealership was closed so I left a note after disconnecting negative cable (still showing signs of draw). Knowing that I had no service appointment, I didn't expect any immediate miracles.

Car sat there three days before they were even able to look at it. Tech discovered corrosion and dead short in wiring harness that services Side Warning module. They said "Several thousand dollars to replace harness and modules or they could just disconnect it all" I advised them that I couldn't care less about that function and to just disconnect all of it. They did... only charged me a couple hundred bucks... problem solved! Or so I thought.

Two days later, exact symptoms returned. Again I was lucky enough to get it to the dealership. Again it was several days before anyone got to it. This time I was told that same harness had corrosion and short farther down the line somewhere and needed to be replaced. Either $500 bucks to disconnect the whole ball of wax or $2000.00 + tax to do the job right.

So far, I couldn't blame anyone really except Ohio winters, the DOT and their liberal use of salt and brine. But then (Christmas Eve Day) things started to go off the rails.

The Dealership uses a texting system as their preferred method of communication. I replied to the last message they sent explaining my options in the early afternoon. No answer. The Service Department closed early for the holiday. I can't blame them for that either. I wanted to tell them to go ahead and fix it the way it should be fixed. No one there to tell. Wasn't until they reopened on Friday that anyone got my message.

I clearly explained that they could have all the time they needed to do the repairs correctly, but I would need a loaner car if it wasn't done by the third day. They offered no objections to that condition. Then the days they had to work on my car were reduced to one. I was informed that the 'Tech' who was assigned to my car had the day (Saturday) off. That meant my car being out of service for another two days before any parts could be even be ordered. Then... when it was clear my car would NOT BE DONE on time, they claimed not to have any 'loaner' cars. I HAD TO GET TO WORK! A lot full of used pieces of sh!t and they couldn't see fit to let me use one while they squeezed a 2K+repair out of me. I had to lay out 300 bucks for the only rental car available in a 50 mile radius.

The wiring harness has now been replaced and the car is back to normal... but for how long? I'd like to get a little more use out of it but I think it's time it should go. I bought this car after my '05 Magnum had to be replaced. The undercarriage had rotted out to the point where it was unsafe to drive. And don't get me started on my Ford Ranger... or the Caddy I had before the Magnum. I know a lot these problems would not have surfaced if it weren't for the horrid Rust Belt winters but... if The Big Three can't build a car to withstand them a little better, I'm may try a different route. Looks like my life-long allegiance to American Cars is fading. I guess I can console myself with the fact that the KIA Telluride I have my eye on was at least assembled in America. And to me, it's a hell of alot better looking than any of the Buick SUVs

Sorry for the long rant. I wonder if the KIA forums will accept a guy named EDSEL

 

[FrogFan]

Very sorry to hear of your ongoing troubles with the car. I hope it's still worth a little something on a trade for a new car; it sounds like a new car is definitely the way to go for you.

I've been worrying around here about having to replace my 2013 in the near term as my maintenance costs increase year over year. My car has been very good to me over the years; I haven't had near the troubles you've had. I'm in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, so I don't have to contend with northern winters like you do. Maybe that's a factor. My car is due for service in the next week or so. I've noticed it's now using a bit of oil -- maybe a quart in 3,500 miles -- but otherwise no new problems that I can see. I will need a new set of tires in the next 3-6 months. We'll soon see if the dealer recommends anything else -- brakes, timing belt/chain, etc.

I'm probably going off-topic now, but I have been looking around for replacement options myself, and I'm curious how you landed on a Kia. I initially thought the Lexus ES 350 sedan might be a good replacement for the LaCrosse, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to pour myself into or out of a sedan anymore. That led me to an SUV. The Lexus RX is a nice car, my wife has one, but they've abandoned the V6 now and new ones are only available with a 4 cylinder turbo with or without hybrid. The Mazda CX-70 seems like a good option with the turbo I6 and "mild hybrid". All indications are the Buick SUVs are grossly under-powered, so I'm not even considering one of those. Otherwise, I'm seeing either truck or truck-like vehicles powered by 4 cylinder turbo engines, most with hybrid power trains. I'd like at least a 6 cylinder and I'd like to avoid a hybrid option for now.

Anyway, good luck with your decision, and if you do get a new car, good luck with it. Keep us posted what you do before you check out of here.

 

[EDSELRANGER]

Thanks FrogFan. I won't check out of here without saying adios. I'm gonna take my time and keep researching before I pull the trigger on anything. Just gotta hope the LaCrosse will last me until then. From what I can discern, (KBB) it should bring around 6k in trade. We'll see...

 

[02LTD2.0]

I've heard that you should stay away from KIA or anything that Hyundai makes. That includes Genesis.

 

[richardnewton]

I've heard that you should stay away from KIA or anything that Hyundai makes. That includes Genesis.

Strongly agree. Kia-Hyundai scared the daylights out of Toyota 15 years ago for low prices and pretty good quality.

Their cars look awesome now. But more recent engines and security systems are terrible; might bankrupt the business.

Our friend drives a 2008 Kia minivan. It is incredibly reliable. It looks and feels a bit cheap and shoddy, it is noisy but just keeps going.

 

[jeffbazell1]

GM cars have a (horrible) reputation for placing wiring in vulnerable spots. The slightest moisture hitting my undercarriage pops that 'side detection temporarily unavailable' message. I certainly won't go to any 'stealership' to get it looked at. A possible solution could've been a simple wrap of some electrical tape around the connectors that carry the side detector current. Dealership techs are instructed (with few exceptions) to upsell or choose the most expensive repair that will 'fix' a problem. Just watch Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics or South Main Auto Repair videos.

 

[EDSELRANGER]

Strongly agree. Kia-Hyundai scared the daylights out of Toyota 15 years ago for low prices and pretty good quality.

Their cars look awesome now. But more recent engines and security systems are terrible; might bankrupt the business.

Our friend drives a 2008 Kia minivan. It is incredibly reliable. It looks and feels a bit cheap and shoddy, it is noisy but just keeps going.

Hey Richard... No wish to argue but I don't quite get what you are saying. "Low prices and pretty good quality" doesn't really sound like a negative?.

And I agree... much of their recent line does look pretty awesome (another positive).

I believe the more recent 4 cylinder turbo charged engines are (or have been) a problem. I wouldn't consider going that way. Not interested in a hybrid either. It's my impression that the Telluride's normally aspirated 6 cylinder 3.8L has been around for a while and is regarded as reliable.

I'm aware of the security system issues and that's a definite negative. An easy target for the 'boys in the hood'. My daughter lives and works in a not-so-nice area of the city. We don't worry too much about anyone grabbing her Kia Soul though. Her 'theft deterrent' is a standard shift transmission.

And as far as your friend's Kia Minivan... 'incredibly reliable" doesn't sound too bad either! Especially after my experience with the Buick 😉. I'd settle for noisy if it gets me to work!

 

[EDSELRANGER]

GM cars have a (horrible) reputation for placing wiring in vulnerable spots. The slightest moisture hitting my undercarriage pops that 'side detection temporarily unavailable' message. I certainly won't go to any 'stealership' to get it looked at. A possible solution could've been a simple wrap of some electrical tape around the connectors that carry the side detector current. Dealership techs are instructed (with few exceptions) to upsell or choose the most expensive repair that will 'fix' a problem. Just watch Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics or South Main Auto Repair videos.

Agree with all of that!

 

[richardnewton]

Hey Richard... No wish to argue but I don't quite get what you are saying. "Low prices and pretty good quality" doesn't really sound like a negative?.

Oh...that is what the Toyota execs said 15 years ago. The Koreans were killing everyone then.

Today, I would not touch a Korean car with a barge pole. You can research the dealer/maker support online if you like.

 

[FrogFan]

I keep looking, but normally aspirated non-hybrid 6 or 8 cylinder engines are incredibly rare in new cars these days unless you want a truck or truck-like SUV (I don't because they won't fit in my garage). Kia Telluride is one and I think you can get a Chevy Blazer with the V6 that came with the LaCrosse. Unless I'm missing something, the Blazer is not well-equipped vis-a-vis the LaCrosse so I'm reduced to looking at used cars. Very frustrating.