1999 Buick LeSabre transmission issues?

[carlos&carlos]

The LeSabre I own had 52,000 miles and was 18 years old. when I bought it about two years ago.

The car surely showed several electrical issues which I have fixec one by one, including the unfamous broken wire at the ignition cylinder with the correspondent SECURITY system insisting in killing the car rather than starting in. Oh, that was out of question. This blinking and solid SECURITY light in the dash still is until today a trauma in my life which is hard to cure. Sometimes I cry when I remember its eccentric and arrogant attitude in silence impeding me to start the car.

Today I came to this forum with a question about my non starting car, but while I was reading other posts, somehow I received a kind of inspiration from the answers given to others by you and I went back to my car and I think I finally found what was the problem. Then, after fixing it I started to participate here giving opinions.

At this time, this car runs like a champ.

However, since two months ago a little change is happening and I would like to check if there is a way to prevent an increase of the "issue" (if any) and avoid greater complications.

The transmission has started to give a kick, a very soft kick going to first and second gear. In most cases won't do it and will change gears very smooth, in other times it makes a soft kick that won't shake the car but I can feel it. To be more clear, it feels like driving a Honda with regular transmission, while before this car was like having a CVT.

Probably the electrical problems with this car were the reason why the low mileage in so many years. By the body appearance, this car has been inside a garage for years. After three or four months driving it the intake manifold cover gasket started to leak. Also the power steering pump started to leak and I saw the fluid like "sweat" coming out in some parts of the lines. I replaced gaskets, intake manifold covers and the power steering pump and its lines. No big deal, the job was not that hard and the parts weren't expensive.

I also have replaced the breaks fluid and the front brake pads. Also replaced the coolant temperature sensor and by the way the coolant was also changed.

I did check the transmission fluid and looks like new, very clear for being a 52,000 miles, and that is my concern. I have no idea about the service record of this vehicle.

Do you think that the oil might be the cause of the little soft kick when is changing gears? Problem is I don't know if the oil is new or if it is old.

In case I change the transmission fluid, but the soft kick still is happening, what it could be the problem? Perhaps the internal electric modules, the ones I think are located on the side of the transmission?

I ask because one time, and one time only this car started changing gears by itself after a curve, it was like going from first to third and later second gear, the car was practically jumping. I turned it Off, waited a few minutes and started it again. It showed a code related with the transmission but I forgot which one was. The car has not behaved this way anymore.

Here some pictures of this vehicle with some "updates" I performed in it.

I truly love this car.

Replacement of the old manufacturer radio by a Boss Entertainment Center, with GPS, Radio, CD, Bluetooth, Aux, and, of course, backup camera.







Here is the car in idle after I fixed the loose positive cable to the battery



Paint of the car is in excellent condition, on the other hand, my family and I have caused lots of scratches and marks to it while going shopping and to the mountain. This car went up to the Shenandoah mountains without any problems. I used it because the bottom side of this car is very high and won't be reached by stones or dead branches of the road going up to the cabin.




I love installing Hamann decals and emblems in my cars.



The GPS antenna was covered with a fake shark tail I bought on eBay. I have the color paint for this LeSabre but I will wait until Spring season to match the color.



The doors have cell phone chargers. Also bought them on eBay at a bargain price. I love doing electrical work so running wires is my delight.



I will appreciate very much your suggestions, I am trying to avoid an increase of a transmission problem -if any- in this car.

 

[squirrel]

I did check the transmission fluid and looks like new, very clear for being a 52,000 miles, and that is my concern. I have no idea about the service record of this vehicle.

Did you check the fluid level? If so, what steps did you follow?

 

[HotZ28]

You need to have a trans code scan! It sounds like you may have the beginning of the P01811 or PO742 problem, which may be resolved with trans synthetic fluid & filter change. Some good advice shown in the links below. BTW, you got off topic in the rest of your post. We need to keep the original question in the thread as the major issue! You should post another thread about the other upgrades!

Harsh Shift, P1811

Check out https://www.tripleedgeperformance.com! This page discusses some symptoms and causes or the 4T65E transmission setting trouble code P1811.

tripleedgeperformance.com

Harsh shifts, P0742

Check out https://www.tripleedgeperformance.com! This page goes over some of the problems with a 4T65E transmission that may set code P0742 and have lockup clutch problems.

tripleedgeperformance.com

 

[W.Lasabre]

I just ordered this kit from them and I'll let you guys know how it goes amd what i feel different , I went with valvoline maxlife and the code has not come back. But it still shifts hard on occassion

 

[HotZ28]

Valvoline max-life is a very good fluid! BTW, what was the code?

 

[W.Lasabre]

I got the p1811 code for maximum adapt shift

 

[HotZ28]

It may take some time/miles (2K) to see the difference from the fluid change. If that don't correct the harsh shift, the accumulator upgrade would be the next best choice. Good luck & keep us informed of the progress

 

[RobR]

Transgo shift kit is the solution.

 

[W.Lasabre]

I cant wait to install it

 

[carlos&carlos]

Did you check the fluid level? If so, what steps did you follow?

Yes I did it. First warming up the car and later checking the fluid level. When I received this car it was with all fluids in order. This won't mean the fluids were "fresh" but they were in order.

Doing repairs I was obligated to change them anyway.

I didn't do the transmission fluid because I must check first how many quarts I will need, also if I can use any filter of I just must use the AC Delco filter and gasket.

Plus, if I need to do a repair, I must do the whole thing at once.

 

[squirrel]

you did check the fluid with the engine running?

 

[carlos&carlos]

You need to have a trans code scan! It sounds like you may have the beginning of the P01811 or PO742 problem, which may be resolved with trans synthetic fluid & filter change. Some good advice shown in the links below. BTW, you got off topic in the rest of your post. We need to keep the original question in the thread as the major issue! You should post another thread about the other upgrades!

http://[URL]http://tripleedgeperformance.com/Harsh-Shift-P1811.html

[/URL]

http://[URL]http://tripleedgeperformance.com/Harsh-shifts-P0742.html

[/URL]

Hey, thanks.
I think I had both codes but in different opportunities.

This was long ago. I didn't take pictures for future references. I guess the p1811 code came with the car. This code disappeared by itself after driving the car for two months.

The code p0742 (I think this was the code, the ending 742 sounds familiar) is the one I believe did appear after I was testing the car and driving it like James Bond in an open area, speeding like crazy and making wild turns. I was testing the news struts and checking how well was the balance of this car. When I returned back to the city and driving between streets is when the car started to jump like crazy and it appearsed to be changing gears by itself. Curiously no engine light showed up. Still I think it was a different code. It also went away by itself.

Probably the codes happened in a different order. But they were more than one code, that is for sure> Even I think there were four codes related to transmission.

In those days I did my homework checking what could be the problem, and trying to understand what I might be confronting in the future.

I have restrained myself of changing the transmission fluid because I want to be sure that I won't need to empty the transmission fluid again later on for doing further repairs, like to say, trying to avoid wasting transmission fluid.

What I know, in base of what happened more than a year ago, is that in those days I bought some transmission parts. I bought the five pieces one by one, because I think if I finally will open the transmission side, then I better change the whole modules at once. The car is old and has not many driving miles, however parts also turn bad because their longevity. (preventive mandatory maintenance)



After reading your links, I think I better just change the transmission fluid first. Later I must wait and check for symptoms. If the car continues the same or starts going worst, then I will do the entire repair.

Right now I don't feel like lifting the car for a few days, I need to do lots of things and Winter season is around the corner. I do the car repairs outside in the alley, and raining days are predicted for these days.

Hope my car understand I can't do more for it at this time.

 

[carlos&carlos]

Valvoline max-life is a very good fluid! BTW, what was the code?

Not sure anymore about the code. It happened early last year, and I'm confused and can't remember well.

By the way, thanks for the info about the fluid. Question is, how many quarts I must use?

Thanks.

 

[carlos&carlos]

you did check the fluid with the engine running?

I guess yes, I was following instructions and I think that is how I did it.

 

[imidazol97]

I believe mine took 6 - 7 quarts. I think your big question may be what replacement fluid to put in. I recall that Dexron III is no longer available--I believe that's what the service called for then. The replacements on the shelf at Walmart and other stores were Dexron/Mercon or something like that sold as a general replacement.

I defer and hope someone with more recent knowledge can fill in here.

I recall that Dexron VI came out and was a blend? IIRC. And many places recommended that as the general replacement for the earlier Dexron II/III specs.

If I were in your position, I'd check the shelf at Walmart for their Techron brand of Dexron VI. Buy several quarts of that and keep the receipt to return any extras.

Since you have to do this in an outdoor situation. Since you DO NOT know the earlier record on any fluid changes. AND since you said fluid is clear, without a color, not pinkish, not brownish, I think that indicates fluid somewhat deteriorated according to the color stages due to wear... Good fluid should be red.

I'd change the fluid with the Dexron VI that's inexpensive but generally deemed good by people in the H-body forums, Walmart Techron Dexron VI.
Buy a small diameter plastic tubing at a Lowes or Home Depot or you local hardware ACE or Do It Best store and get maybe 3/16 inch diameter that will fit into the dipstick tube for the transmission.

I siphoned out the old fluid several times without replacing the filter from underneath. With the trans fluid hot so its viscosity is lower and it flows better through the small tube, siphon as much out as you get putting the tube in and it goes down to the pan.

Refill and drive for a thousand miles. Note any changes as the new 1/2 of the fluid with increased additives removes any crud on things internal that are part of the shifting.

Repeat the drain and fill. Then you'll have about 1/4 old fluid and 3/4 new. That's about what you'd have dropping the pan and draining, if you push gently and get the tube all the way down to the pan.

Hint, buy tubing that is not curled up tightly on the dispensing roll ir you're buying where they cut off from a roller. The tubing tends to stay curled. It's easier to slide it down the diptick tube when it's straighter.

Advantage of this is you can do it without getting under the car. You can do it in the rain. You can do it at less expense.

BTW, I used the Techron Walmart brand myself. I had to check a second Walmart to find it locally because at that time it sold fast because it was substantially cheaper than the brand names.

Hopefully The new fluid _may_ solve your problem.

 

[imidazol97]

The car needs to have been driven so that the trans fluid is warmed up. There's a valve that closes and keeps more fluid in the upper level of the trans due to the change in viscosity with increased temperature, and it's open to allow the thicker fluid to drain down while cold. I believe I have that right.

When the trans is cold the fluid level may be read wrong in the lower pan level because the fluid is not the way it will be at normal temperature.

 

[carlos&carlos]

I believe mine took 6 - 7 quarts. I think your big question may be what replacement fluid to put in. I recall that Dexron III is no longer available--I believe that's what the service called for then. The replacements on the shelf at Walmart and other stores were Dexron/Mercon or something like that sold as a general replacement.

I defer and hope someone with more recent knowledge can fill in here.

I recall that Dexron VI came out and was a blend? IIRC. And many places recommended that as the general replacement for the earlier Dexron II/III specs.

If I were in your position, I'd check the shelf at Walmart for their Techron brand of Dexron VI. Buy several quarts of that and keep the receipt to return any extras.

I love it, and surely I will do the "flushing" of the old transmission fluid following the steps suggested by you and finally change the fluid after a few thousand miles. That is a very good method of cleaning the inside.

I might need to buy two 2 1/2 gallons of the tranny fluid from below. Allow me to explain.

My problem is that I'm very skeptic. Lets say, my son's Hyundai Sonata requires conventional 5w-20 motor oil, and the first time I was ready to buy the fluid, the Auto Zone and Advanced Auto Parts store attendants, and later the same dealer shop mechanic, the three of them recommended me to use the synthetic oil. Or at least the "blended" oil.

From my point of view, if the manufacturer prepared the car for using conventional oil, then I see no reason why I must use a different kind of fluid. To me is like my Buick requires 87 Octane and by advice from others I put inside the tank 94 octane. I guess the premium gasoline might do better job inside the engine but... do I really need it in order to keep my car in good shape as it is supposed to be?

Then, regardless of that praising to the synthetic oil, I bought the conventional motor oil and kept changing it every three thousand miles. I have had cars reaching 200,000 miles with several problems but no one related to motor oil maintenance. In this part I'm old school. By the way, I don't like Sonatas but my son bought it after testing several brand cars with same average price.

I'm not against anyone, but I understand Dextron III is hard to find in the market so there is no other choice but buying a similar fluid as a replacement.

And again, I had this same situation with a Hyundai XG350 I owned 15 years ago, which was in need of a Dextron Mercon with certain characteristics that only the Motul brand transmission fluid had as a required property in its composition. No other transmission fluid brand on sale in the US had the required properties as stipulated by the manufacturer.

And I remember I had to order it online. (The Mitsubishi dealer was the only one selling this Motul transmission fluid in those years) But before that, when I tried to buy it from the dealer, they told me they just used regular transmission fluid. This was crazy because even the manual service of that car specified with a warning not to use a different kind of transmission fluid. This world has turned nuts, no doubt about it.

So, I will need the advice of someone who can clarify this issue. I want to buy the same conventional transmission fluid to which my car was built to use as specified by the manufacturer.

I have found in Walmart the following Dextron Mercon III

Warren Distribution MG06DX22 Dexron III/Mercon Automatic Transmission Fluid, 2-1/2-Gals. - Walmart.com




2 1/2 gallon for $31.95.

MAG 1® Automatic Transmission Fluid

According to its website, these are the properties of this fluid:



Manufactured in the USA







Product Data Sheet

Safety Data Sheet

Product Family Data Sheet



MAG 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid is engineered to extend transmission life and smooth operation of Ford and General Motors vehicles where a DEXRON III/MERCON® fluid is specified.
Protection for Today’s Automatic Transmission Designs
Automotive transmissions have evolved dramatically, requiring highly specialized fluids for unique applications. One brand has evolved right alongside – MAG 1®. Only the most advanced transmission fluids meet the difficult challenges of effectively balancing performance, strength and durability.

Performance

• Delivers superior friction stability to maintain smooth, consistent shifting and prevent shudder.

Strength

• Provides a strong oil film to prevent metal-to-metal contact between rotating parts to prevent wear.

Durability

• Resists thickening due to high operating temperatures.

Applications

• Also recommended for all transmissions requiring DEXRON® II or IIE, or Type A transmission fluids. Do not use this product in General Motors vehicles after model year 2005 and Ford® vehicles after model year 2006. Do not use this product in transmissions that specify Ford Type F, MERCON® V fluids or GM Dexron® VI fluid.

Industry/OEM Specifications

Allison C-4	Meets Requirements
Dexron III G/H, Dexron II, Dexron, AW1	Meets Requirements
Mercon, Ford ESP-M2C166-H	Meets Requirements
Vickers	Meets Requirements

Typical Properties

Brookfield Viscosity at -40°C, cP	ASTM D2983	18,500
Color	ASTM D1500	Red
Copper Strip Corrosion (3 hrs@100°C)	ASTM D130	1B
Flash Point °C	ASTM D92	204
Flash Point °F	ASTM D92	400
Foam Test	ASTM D892	<100/0 ml
Gravity, °API	ASTM D287	32.98
Hydrolytic Stability Test	ASTM D2619	Pass
Pour Point °C (°F)	ASTM D5950	-51°C (-60°F)
Rust Protection	ASTM D665A	Pass
Specific Gravity @ 60°F (15.6°C)	ASTM D4052	0.8603
Sundstrand Axial Piston Pump		Pass
Viscosity @ 100°C cSt	ASTM D445	7.38
Viscosity @ 40°C cSt	ASTM D445	35.67
Viscosity Index	ASTM D2270	179

Note that I will prefer the conventional transmission fluid before buying blended or fully synthetic. It's "my thing" to religiously follow what the service manual asks for replacement. Also note that this transmission fluid is not for GM after 2005 and neither Ford after 2006.


Is this transmission fluid good for my Buick as specified by the manufacturer?

 

[imidazol97]

Dextron VI is the recommended replacement for Dextron III (H) versions and is more stable in viscosity.

DEXRON - Wikipedia

 

[carlos&carlos]

Dextron VI is the recommended replacement for Dextron III (H) versions and is more stable in viscosity.

DEXRON - Wikipedia

Thanks for the link. Now I know the Walmart transmission oil is OK as well as the Dextron VI, and that is more close to the specifications of the Dextron III.

Besides the resistance or help to prevent corrosion, to me viscosity is a kind of important when the fluid runs inside an engine or transmission.

I was changing the specified 0W-20 in a Honda Accord and my neighbor saw me doing it and told me that even when the car requires 0W-20 that I must use 5W-20 because the first one is like water while the another one is "real oil".

And I responded, "Yeah! -and imitating Tim Allen - Viscosity! Ugh ugh ugh!

The AC Delco Dextron III has a maximum 7.5 cST (I have not a single idea of what cST is, but well...) at temperature 100 Centigrades while the Walmart MAG Automatic is 7.3 cST. On the other hand the Dextron VI is 6.4 cST.

My guess the difference is because the Dextron VI was made specially for 6 speed transmissions while my car is a 4 speed transmission. The Wikipedia link given by you implies the same, that fhe Dextron VI was made to supply the needs of the new models after 2006.

Of course GM recommends the new transmission fluid for other models as well because is not producing the old Dextron III anymore Plus GM is not supporting out of market Dextron III, however is not against the continued manufacturing of Dextron III by others to be used on the old GM transmissions.

To me, this is like Buick or Volvo not making engine or body parts anymore for older models. In many cases after 10 years some car manufacturers stop producing parts in some models. If I want to buy -as an example- the front crash sensor for the Air Bag system of my car, then I must visit the junk yard.

I think I will take my chances, and I will put inside my car transmission the after market Dextron III.

In order to play safe, after the replacement I will give it another 60,000 miles and change it again, and so forth. After all, I am ignoring as well the oil light suggestion and I'm replacing the motor oil every three thousand miles. Plus I replace the oil filter each time. I was so lucky, last year Rock Auto had a sale of oil filters for this Buick at one dollar plus cents a piece, and I bough a decent number of them to change the oil at my pace.

I know I'm a pain in the butt when I disagree with you and others because I just look for what is closer to the manufacturer specifications of the fluids. Still, I have another question.

I saw gaskets and filter sold together for 5 bucks. Perhaps those are as old as my car but preserved in a sealed package or, they are of a very bad quality.

Then, what brand is most recommended? Let me explain.

I changed the intake manifold gaskets, and I used the AC Delco brand. But lots of people online recommend the Fel-Pro and they gave their reasons. to which I noticed when I observed the gaskets I bought. The side of the gasket sealing the two surfaces to be joint appeared to be very thin. The guys online say the Fel-Pro gasket sealer area is thicker. I can't say about the Fel-Pro because I installed the AC Delco. However, I should have checked it before buying the gasket.

I am doing the same now. My primary intention is buying the same AC Delco gasket and filter for the transmission pan, but if you have a better option I surely will check it first.

Thanks in advance.

 

[carlos&carlos]

Arghhhh!!!

I bought the Fel-Pro gasket and the AC Delco cheaper version transmission filter and did the replacement.

At this time, I ignored my "old school" tightening technique, which is reaching the top end in torque and add 45 or 90 degrees according to what I am installing. Like 90 degrees added for spark plugs, 45 degrees added for oil pan bolts, etc. At this time I used a calibrated torque wrench up to 14NM

Bad idea.

My cheap calibrated tool failed me and caused me to break a bolt because to much torque applied. The job was going fine but the tool wasn't as precise as I thought it was. Who knows about the rest of bolts, probably some of them are over 14 NM but I won't touch them. That will be a new problem when the next 60,000 miles arrive, until then, they are OK.

First thought was to use those broken bolt remover tools, but I noticed that the thread hole passes from one side to the other at the transmission border, so I played my luck and using drill bit #9 and thread maker 6.1 mm I just drilled the broken bolt part inside the thread and made a new one.

Success! The new bolt fit great and at this time, using a 1/4 wrench in order to not overpass the torque, I did the adjustments, filled up the transmission with Dextrose III I bought from Walmart, and tested it driving around.
In case the new thread didn't work, then my other solution was to make the hole a little bigger and use a bolt passing to thru over the top of the transmission edge and add a nut, and tighten it. I did the same with other cars with similar problems in the intake manifold or the oil pan and works the same, and perhaps better.

Apparently this fluid change has solved the little "kick" the transmission was making when changing gears. Not it changes gears smooth, almost not noticeable.

I don't know what I will do next with the leftover 2 1/4 quarts, because I bought the fluid sold in a 2 1/2 gallon container. I might keep it for two or three years, after that the fluid must go to the recycling center.