3800 coolent leaks

livingez123

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Do the 3800's have any coolent leaks that are fairly common?
I have a 89 with 39k on it and I can smell hot coolent when I get out of the car or walk up to it after it has sat for a few min or so. I opened the hood and looked eveywhere and cant find a single drop of coolent anywhere. I'm stumped. It has a new radiator, thermostat and o rings, the hoes's are all nice and soft which is suprising for a 21yo car. I havent a clue where to look next. So if these engines have known history for leaks please let me know.
 
Get yourself a radiator pressure tester. It shouldn't cost more than $100-150. Some leaks evaporate before you can see pooling coolant. You'll spot the leak and be done with it.

The coolant leaks that are common to the 3.8 affect Series II motors mostly. If yours is an 89, you have Series I.
 
I had a 1988 with the same motor as yours. Due to old age and not mileage, you may have an issue with the intake manifold gaskets starting to leak. They are comprised of hard plastic with rubber sealing rings overmolded onto them. Over time the hard plastic will shrink and creep and the rubber takes a set as well.

My intake gaskets made it about 20 years and 212K miles when I noticed a small amount of coolant leaking out the end of the manifold.

And as the poster above has stated, if it's a small leak onto a hot motor, you'll smell it before you see it as the coolant will evaporate fairly quickly.

With the engine cold, pressurize the system with a coolant test gauge and carefully check everywhere for leaks. I'd also look carefully around the water pump in the following places: 1) above where the bypass hose goes into the intake manifold (it's hard to see, it's underneath the alternator which is easily removed); 2) below the water pump, where the weep hole is, your water pump shaft seal could easily be seeping; 3) at the back where the two heater hoses connect to the steel pipes, your pipes may have a pinhole leak from corrosion if the coolant has never been changed, and also where the pipes go into the motor, there are O-rings there; and 4) where the lower radiator hose connects to the pump.

Another place to check is for slow leaks at the radiator side tanks.

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Don't want to spend the $ for a coolant pressure tester? Then make your own! Go down to the big box/hardware store and go into the plumbing section and find a T-fitting (PVC is easy to work with) that has an outer diameter that will fit inside of your upper radiator hose. You'll need a second piece of hose the same diameter so you can connect the other side of the fitting to the vehicle. Now get the plugs and pieces on your third port of the fitting to accept either a 1/8" NPT or 1/4" NPT thread. Buy a couple of hose clamps for the setup as well while you're still in plumbing.

Then head on over to the auto parts or air compressor fittings section where you can find a Schrader valve fitting (has either 1/8" or 1/4" NPT male threads on one end, and a standard Schrader valve on the other end, just like your tire valve stems do). Insert this valve into the third port on the PVC fitting. You can also find these valves at most auto parts stores in the section with all of the tire valve stuff and air compressor couplers.

It helps to drain a bit of the coolant out of the system first, and then install the fitting in the upper hose. Now take a manual tire pump (preferably one with a gauge and a quick-release hose connection, but either is not absolutely necessary), connect it to the Schrader valve port, and pump up the system to between 7-15 psi. If you don't have a gauge, simply pump it up until the hoses are fairly firm.

Then check for leaks as described above. If you have a gauge, you can also monitor the pressure which should remain steady once you reach your desired pressure. Any decrease in pressure indicates a leak somewhere.

The quick-release fitting on the tire pump is handier, as it makes it less likely that you will get coolant blowback into the tire pump hose when you disconnect it.

You can make your own test setup for under $20, not including the tire pump.
 
I had the same problem after putting an '88 engine into my '89 lesabre along with a new radiator. The radiator cap was also replaced at this time. We figured it was the head gaskets and had them replaced. Still dealing with massive coolant loss, I decided to try a new radiator cap again, this time from NAPA. That solved it and I have not had a problem since.

It turns out the tabs that secure the radiator cap were too long preventing a proper seal.

-buickdriver
 
All good ideas, Thanks I will start with a cold engine and go from there.
 
update....
well I could never find the leak so we just drove the car and filled the overflow as needed. I figured when it decided to leak enough for me to see it I will fix it then.....

Well it's then!
the leak turned out to be a head gasket, it's pumping out water on the rear head. it's no wonder I never I found it, I can even see back there.
so I will have to move the boat to another garage for a few weeks while I take the heads off and get them re-surfaced and put this thing back together.
It only has 48K on it and it's leaked for 10k of that. so the old people that had this car never kept up on the maintance. There adult son just ran the crap out of it when he drove it and he was brainless when things went wrong. oh well this crap happens, now I get to fix it and make it right!
 
I imagine that all of the freeze plugs need replacing. The head gaskets are not a known problem.
 
could be, Im not sure of anything right now. I have a bad back disability and working on this car is not one of my favorite things to do. I will have to jack it up and try to see where it's coming from. My wife is being a real PITA about the whole thing...hurry up and get it fixed, I'm not going to ride the MAX everyday until you get this fixed!
 
I'll second the recommendation to inspect the block freeze plugs prior to removing the head. I had leaking freeze plugs prior to 100K miles on my 1988 (which I bought with 65K miles and the coolant looked perfect with no rust, but it must have been corrosive/acidic as everything in the entire cooling system leaked/failed prior to 100K miles).

The freeze plugs on the front of the block aren't too bad to get to (think one is behind the A/C compressor though), but the ones on the back are definitely difficult to access because the transmission is right in the way. By taking the RF wheel off and the inner fenderwell splash shield, I was able to get in there with a dremel tool and cut the old plug out. I installed an all-metal (think it was brass) expanding plug (has a bolt through the center that you tighten) in that hole because I didn't have good access to drive a new one-piece metal plug into place. You can also use the expanding rubber plugs but I don't trust those over the long term.

The other place to look for leaks is at the ends of the steel heater core pipes where they transition to the rubber hoses that run to the heater core. These are on the back side of the motor, underneath the power steering pump. I replaced these steel pipes as well on mine.

Your best bet is to take the car to a shop that has a lift, as the areas of interest to check for leaks (as described above) are easily inspected from below.

Good luck!
 
well, this really sucks. Doing the heads would have been easy but this is going to be a PITA!

the 2 rear soft plugs are toast. one is leaking and the other looks like its going to explode. Now I get to decide to try and fix it on my back or just take the engine out. your right about the transmission being in the way. I didnt remember it being that long down behind there. I thought the PO took better care of the car than this, but I guess I was wrong. maybe if they drove it once and a while instead of letting it sit things would have been in better shape. on the bright side I have a cherry 89 LeSabre with only 48k on it!
the down side is I have to go and fix it.
 
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after laying under the car trying to get my hands to the soft plugs and seeing that it's not going to happen from the bottom side I thought maybe going down from the top might be easier. pull the exhaust manifold and work from the top down. It's a idea that might work. But I still think pulling the engine might be best way to get at them with ease. I think I need to sleep on it.
 
after laying under the car trying to get my hands to the soft plugs and seeing that it's not going to happen from the bottom side I thought maybe going down from the top might be easier. pull the exhaust manifold and work from the top down. It's a idea that might work. But I still think pulling the engine might be best way to get at them with ease. I think I need to sleep on it.
Like I said above, I was able to get into that area with a Dremel tool equipped with the tiny abrasive cutoff disc with my right arm while laying on a creeper underneath the car. The key is to remove the plastic splash shield in the RH fenderwell.

It's not a fun job. I chose to use the Dremel tool to cut into the core plug and carefully cut into the edge, trying hard not to grind into the block (think I did just a tiny bit). It's better to punch it inward and pull it out with pliers or cut a slot in the middle and pry it out with a big screwdriver. Whatever works!

They do make special core plug installation tools, but I don't have one and thus don't know if they will fit between the engine and transmission. Some of them are bent and have a ball swivel joint on the driver end such that they can be at an angle (which is definitely the case on your car). Look up online the ATD 5270, or Autozone has this one which looks like the same thing:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...g-installation-tool-kit?itemIdentifier=965837

Here's another one that is similar (made in USA too, cool!):

http://www.toolsource.com/freeze-plug-installation-tool-p-50332.html

This set has a remover tool that may be useful:

http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com/Frost-Plug-RemoverInstaller-Set-P27898.aspx

You may be able to heat up and further bend the shaft of the installation tool if needed. Renting one of these kits is another option, from a local tool rental or auto parts store.

Like I said above, I used a two-piece, copper expanding plug on the back side of my block after trying in vain to drive a solid core plug back in. One sealed perfectly, and the second had a really small leak that never really bothered me over the life of the car. I know that Dorman makes them and there is a picture of a couple of them at the bottom of this thread:

http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,1522067,1604287

Dorman still makes these, they call them Quick-Seal copper expansion plugs, here's a link to their website:

http://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?type=keyword&q=expansion+plugs+-+quick-seal®+copper


You have found out (as I did with my 1988) that the anti-corrosion additives in the coolant break down over time. I replace the coolant in all of my cars now every 3-4 years whether it looks bad or not, it's cheap insurance. Prestone is running a $15 rebate now on their coolant if you buy two gallons before the end of this month (see rebate info at the store or on the bottle). I use that mixed with distilled water.
 
it took me about 15min to get the old plugs out. I have a 18" pry bar that has the end bent to about 45deg. I punched a hole in the plug and pushed it in, turned it and popped it out, the second one was just as easy. getting a brass plug in wasn't going to happen without a good install tool. So I took the easy way out and put in 2 new rubber expanding plugs and called it good. the car stays in town and doesnt see more than 15 miles a day so I think the rubber ones will be just fine. Now to put a new heater core in.

Thanks for all of the great advice and tips on how to get it done.
 
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