1995 Park Avenue Issues - PLEASE HELP!!!

[LadySmith]

Have you checked the fuel pump relay? Maybe its week causing it too kick out when it starts getting warm. Maybe replace it anyways its not very expensive.

yeah if the wiring on the car is fine, I'd double check the FP relay.

Yes, we have replaced the fuel pump relay. See, when the battery on the car was dead, we noticed the fuel pump relay clicking real fast. We went ahead and replaced it since it didn't cost much. Later we found out that it will click with a dead battery. So, don't know if the old one needed replacing or not, but we did anyway. This was after the other fuel pump.

Hubby's gonna double check the wiring, particularly the wiring going from the PCM to the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump. It's got to be something there or else the PCM is bad.

 

[Cadillac_AL]

I didn't mean to "hit a nerve" with you or whatever...offend you or whatever. All I know is that more than likely, when we replaced the fuel pump 1 1/2 - 2 years ago, it probably replaced the original factory fuel pump that lasted that long (140K miles or so). Now the parts store fuel pump did fix the issue we were having at that time (1 1/2 - 2 years ago), but with the newest problem we've been having, hubby replaced the fuel pump again. Then, we were still having the same problem and after checking and checking on things that have been suggested here (along with what advice hubby's gotten from various people), we were still having the same problem. Then, that made us second guess the fuel pump that we had just put on it...wondering why in the world it would quit pumping. Then, when two reputable mechanics told him that about replacing the fuel pump with an AC Delco, we decided to (wasn't any extra money really since we didn't have to pay for the one we had just put on it). We thought at the very least, we pretty much could rule out the fuel pump (even though I KNOW there are duds sometimes with anything...brand name or not). There was a big difference in the quality (physical appearance and weight) of the two fuel pumps, so we really felt more at ease with ruling out if it's the fuel pump or not with the AC Delco (not to say that they can't be bad from the factory too).

Anyway, I apologize if it offended you...wasn't my intention at all.




The fuel pump from a parts store was the replacement for a previous parts store pump from about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago.

No nerves here. I was just SURPRISED that a new AC Delco pump cured the problem because I thought the parts store pump was just put in recently. I know a lot of parts store parts with lifetime warranty are still no bargain when you have to keep replacing them all the time. I just didn't know fuel pumps were one of those items. To tell you the truth, if I needed a fuel pump I would probably buy the AC Delco anyway just because I've been on a run of bad luck with cheaper parts. These are nice cars when you get them running right. I'm still betting on the cam sensor or ECM though.

 

[LadySmith]

No nerves here. I was just SURPRISED that a new AC Delco pump cured the problem because I thought the parts store pump was just put in recently. I know a lot of parts store parts with lifetime warranty are still no bargain when you have to keep replacing them all the time. I just didn't know fuel pumps were one of those items. To tell you the truth, if I needed a fuel pump I would probably buy the AC Delco anyway just because I've been on a run of bad luck with cheaper parts. These are nice cars when you get them running right. I'm still betting on the cam sensor or ECM though.

Well, the problem isn't totally fixed with the AC Delco pump, though much better. I have no idea if it was the pump or the wiring he messed with even though he said everything there looked good.

He drove it to work yesterday morning -- no problems until he was sitting there idling in the parking lot and it went dead, but immediately cranked back up.

On the way home, no problems.

Today was Day #1 of no stalling!!! He drove it to work without it going dead (around 20 miles or so). Then, he drove it back home stopping at a store on the way home (so maybe 25 miles or so). It never went dead any!

Whatever he did, it made a big difference.

I know that the ECM/PCM could still be bad or some sensor or something. It's just weird to me that the problem had gotten to the point of getting worse and worse...not even being able to get 3-5 miles up the road without going dead and then not cranking back up immediately. Now, it's only went dead the one time while idling yesterday morning and hasn't done it since.

 

[LadySmith]

Well, even though the problem is MUCH better than it was, it is still there! It has went dead a couple of times but has been able to be cranked right back up. Yesterday it didn't die any. Hubby drove it to work this morning and it didn't go dead any.

Hubby is going to replace the crank shaft position sensor (CKPS). Hopefully that will fix it. If not, I'm sure it wouldn't be a total waste on a car with 161,000 miles and it would at least rule it out.

I know whatever he has done has made it SOOO much better that it really still has me thinking some kind of wiring and him messing with all of that has somewhat made the problem better.

I had asked him to check the wiring connection going to the CKPS and he said that if he's going to go through all that trouble, that he'll go ahead and replace the CKPS while he's at it.

So, that's the next project whenever hubby can get to it this week or this weekend.

 

[LadySmith]

Well, another example of how random this is....yesterday hubby drove it to work. No stalling at all to and from work.

This morning, it died on him twice on the way to work.

 

[gillis418]

I'm sure you guys have it covered and this may be overly simple. I have a 95 park avenue ultra and have had very similar problems. Luckily mine turned out to be the positive cables and terminal on the battery. They would either come loose or corrode quickly. There are two cables with a bolt going through to connect to the battery. It seems like a poor design to me. I used a wire brush to clean the cables and terminal and I check/ tighten the bolt when needed. So far it seems to have corrected it for me, hopefully you'll be as lucky

 

[LadySmith]

Update:

The car has still been bad the past few days...running like a champ, smooth as silk while it's running, but randomly go dead, and sometimes crank right back up, but sometimes it takes a few times.

Anyway, today I was sitting in the car with it running while hubby went in the dealership to get the CKPS (they'll have to order the harmonic balancer). All of a sudden, I noticed the air wasn't cool anymore. I turned it off for a minute, back on, off, back on...it still wasn't getting cold, so I just left it off. I was wondering what in the world is going on with the air conditioner. After a few minutes, I happen to notice the temperature hand was up there...not quite in the red and the warning light wasn't on, but that temperature was definitely up there. I immediately turned the car off.

When hubby got back to the car, I told him and we drove it a short distance to his mother's house (the temp had already started going down by the time hubby got back to the car...also the wind blowing through it on the road helped it get on back down there). On the way there, we heard the belt squeak some...nothing major, but have never heard that before in this car.

At his mother's, after it had a chance to cool off, he checked the radiator and there was only a little antifreeze/water in it. He knew he had just recently did the intake manifold thing, so he was wondering what the problem could be. He put water in it to see if he could see anything leaking anywhere like a radiator hose....trying to figure out why it was almost running hot. He checked the oil and all to make sure no coolant was in the oil....nope. Well, I happen to notice some liquid coming out down around the bottom of the belt. Hubby looked and said it was the water pump. That's why the belt was squealing some I guess...or just the liquid that had gotten onto the belt. Like what's next?!!!!! What ELSE can possibly go wrong! Ugh!

So, since it was almost time for the dealership to close, we went back and got a water pump too. Good thing he's gonna already have all that stuff off and can go ahead and put the water pump on too.

Now, question.....

Is it possible that the water pump could have possibly been leaking some and since the crank shaft sensor is right below it...the hot coolant leaking onto it could be causing our stalling problem since it is temperature sensitive? Or even if it wasn't necessarily from the heat of the coolant, could the coolant possibly intermittently leaking on it somehow affect the way the crank shaft sensor works...like shorting it out or something therefore the stalling and then when the little bit of coolant leak evaporates, the car will crank? I mean, is this even possible? From what I've read and considering the location of the CKPS in relation to the water pump, this would make sense to me, but I wasn't sure.

If that's the case, then is it possible that the CKPS isn't even necessarily bad...it just shorts out when hot antifreeze is possibly leaking onto it?

I mean, hubby's gonna go ahead and replace the CKPS anyway since we've already got it, but just curious if it may have been the water pump leaking onto the CKPS all along.


Oh, and also...even though hubby is gonna take a good look at it anyway and clean it and such, I'm sure with all this coolant/water leaking in that area when the water pump went out (and possibly leaking a little before) that there's probably a good chance this could have gotten on some of the wiring down there going to the CKPS and such and possibly causing some corrosion and/or pre-corrosion, right?

 

[DonB101]

Our cars must be identicle twins! Mine got so bad at not staying running that I had to park it. I found that the wires leading to the camshaft sensor had melted the insulation of causing it to short. I replaced the wires and both cam & crank sensors. It then started and ran great for about 15 minutes. I finished cleaning up the project and went to back it out of the garage and it was back to the same old stuff. It has set for about a year now and I need to get rid of it. I thought I could get more for it it it was running. This time i went to start it was not getting fuel. I decided to change the fuel pump the other day because the last time I tested the pressure it was 2 psi below spec. Real pain in the butt! I am also replacing the fuel pump relay. I believe it is the one on the farthest passenger side. The wire colors match the schematic in my Haynes Manual. I have also replaced the ignition module, Coils and checked the fuel injectors with a noid light. If I have any luck I will pass it on.

Good luck with your 95, Don

 

[hotrodder]

for what its worth, I had several "dead" incidents this past spring with the RMW , but it always restarted immediately.

Checked the fuel pump fuse ( pass side box) and found the fuse good, but the holder area quite "burnt" and crumbly looking.. As if it got overheated. Cleaned the fuse and holder area, down into the prongs female side, and the problem completely disappeared.

Might be something to check, LOOK CAREFULLY!!!!
Hotrodder.

 

[swiz24]

Ignition module most likely

 

[WilliamE]

I'm having very similar issues with my 97 Park Ave Vin K, and mine have been ongoing for 3-4 years, till finally the car decided to die all together.

The problem I have had is an occasional idling/starting problem that would occur if I let the car sit and idle for a while, it would especially happen if I let it idle and cut the AC on for a minute, if I did either of these things it would start to putter & act like it could not get much gas, that or it was acting like the emission system was having issues, maybe the catalytic converter was getting clogged, I do not know....
Usually when this happened I could wait a while, sometimes a half hour, sometimes overnight, and eventually it would run right again, and would continue to do so unless I let it sit and idle.
Recently it had this problem again, I was sitting somewhere idling, I had the AC on, and well after 45 minutes the car was not happy, I barely made it home, eventually I figured out my 3rd cylinder was missing IE not delivering any spark, so I replaced my 3/5 coil pack, and it started running again fine, till the other day when I cut the AC on for one minute to see if my problem was fixed, that is when it decided it was not going to run again.

I have done a few things myself, I gapped/replaced my 3rd cylinders plug just in case, and plan to replace all as soon as I can get the plugs.
I took my MAF sensor out and cleaned it, it did not look bad at all, so then I removed my IAC and found a lot of carbon built up on it, so I cleaned that well & put it back, after wards I shorted my neg and pos batt cable together to reset the PCM, still no luck.
I am due to have my fuel filter replaced, but I know my fuel pressure is up to spec.

I've had the fuel pump replaced, and the CKP, and now am running low on money to fix the issue.

I am not sure why I did not try to replace the fuel relay in the first place, maybe because I could hear the pump come on every time.

I had a mechanic back-probe my pcm to injectors wire, and he said it was good, he thinks my pcm has gone bad, but I am leaning more towards the theft deterrent module, I had ordered a bypass kit, and planed to bypass the system totally, but if it is the fuel relay then I'll gladly send the bypass back.

I have also noticed when it was running that my anti-freeze reservoir kept running a little low sooner than it should require me to add anymore, so I am a tad worried about my intake manifold, but I am pretty sure my engine is nit hydra-locked, because a little fuel sprayed into the TB and it will run all day, not that I'd do that, it's ruin it surely, lol

Could the ignition coil pack cause things like intermittent chuggle, and what not, as well as stop the injectors from pulsing?


I replaced my TPS because read it could cause similar problems, but that did not fix it, I hope I put that TPS on correctly, I placed in rotated toward the right, then rotated it back counter clockwise (to the left) till the screw holes lined up.

 

[Daconiam]

Ignition switch at the steering wheel.

My car would randomly "turn off" but it would immediately re-start. It was like turning the key to "on" position but not starting it. Kinda scary driving down the freeway and everything is still running but the engine and power steering.

That was the major symptom that led to the key cylinder, everything stayed running (AC, Radio, Lights) but the engine just shut off.

Change the switch and all was good.

 

[alain lubat]

I had this problem on my PA 1994. I solved it by disconnecting the charcoal canister. Since the engine cuts alone anymore!

 

[LMG1438]

Oreilleys can check your ICM .You will have to remove it.

When it stalls does do you feel a vibration like the engine has a "miss" before it actully stops running?

 

[G-752536]

Update:

The car has still been bad the past few days...running like a champ, smooth as silk while it's running, but randomly go dead, and sometimes crank right back up, but sometimes it takes a few times.

Anyway, today I was sitting in the car with it running while hubby went in the dealership to get the CKPS (they'll have to order the harmonic balancer). All of a sudden, I noticed the air wasn't cool anymore. I turned it off for a minute, back on, off, back on...it still wasn't getting cold, so I just left it off. I was wondering what in the world is going on with the air conditioner. After a few minutes, I happen to notice the temperature hand was up there...not quite in the red and the warning light wasn't on, but that temperature was definitely up there. I immediately turned the car off.

When hubby got back to the car, I told him and we drove it a short distance to his mother's house (the temp had already started going down by the time hubby got back to the car...also the wind blowing through it on the road helped it get on back down there). On the way there, we heard the belt squeak some...nothing major, but have never heard that before in this car.

At his mother's, after it had a chance to cool off, he checked the radiator and there was only a little antifreeze/water in it. He knew he had just recently did the intake manifold thing, so he was wondering what the problem could be. He put water in it to see if he could see anything leaking anywhere like a radiator hose....trying to figure out why it was almost running hot. He checked the oil and all to make sure no coolant was in the oil....nope. Well, I happen to notice some liquid coming out down around the bottom of the belt. Hubby looked and said it was the water pump. That's why the belt was squealing some I guess...or just the liquid that had gotten onto the belt. Like what's next?!!!!! What ELSE can possibly go wrong! Ugh!

So, since it was almost time for the dealership to close, we went back and got a water pump too. Good thing he's gonna already have all that stuff off and can go ahead and put the water pump on too.

Now, question.....

Is it possible that the water pump could have possibly been leaking some and since the crank shaft sensor is right below it...the hot coolant leaking onto it could be causing our stalling problem since it is temperature sensitive? Or even if it wasn't necessarily from the heat of the coolant, could the coolant possibly intermittently leaking on it somehow affect the way the crank shaft sensor works...like shorting it out or something therefore the stalling and then when the little bit of coolant leak evaporates, the car will crank? I mean, is this even possible? From what I've read and considering the location of the CKPS in relation to the water pump, this would make sense to me, but I wasn't sure.

If that's the case, then is it possible that the CKPS isn't even necessarily bad...it just shorts out when hot antifreeze is possibly leaking onto it?

I mean, hubby's gonna go ahead and replace the CKPS anyway since we've already got it, but just curious if it may have been the water pump leaking onto the CKPS all along.


Oh, and also...even though hubby is gonna take a good look at it anyway and clean it and such, I'm sure with all this coolant/water leaking in that area when the water pump went out (and possibly leaking a little before) that there's probably a good chance this could have gotten on some of the wiring down there going to the CKPS and such and possibly causing some corrosion and/or pre-corrosion, right?

Seriously? No Conclusion? Wait was the final outcome?

 

[G-151909]

The conclusion turned out like the problem, just went dead, and now I feel dumber for spending the time reading this. GM knows about this problem so why are they not posting the fix? They spend more on engineering parts designed to fail. All the vehicles they made that rusted away, my 98 Silverado tailgate rusted in half, fenders half left, rockers gone, doors half way, fuel tank, fuel lines, brake lines all gone way under 200,000 miles. 93 century same stalling problem. My elderly parents 99 lesabre, never could fix the problem with security system after spending 1000’s at the dealership. 2003 lesabre sitting with the same dying symptoms as this.
And we the people thanks to Obama and the corrupt ruling class including entrenched elected politicians, the beaurcrats they appoint, corporations with their billionaire board members, senior leadership , corporate lawyers and lobbyist, corporate media as their propaganda arm with all of their greedy fingers so deep in our pockets we feel violated all we get is making them richer and cash for clunkers. Making us bail out their corporate buddies who are the ones writing all the bills in this country everyone favoring corporations. And killing us by the millions, they make Hitler and Stalin look like amateurs. Everyone dying from cancer, all the corporate lawyers on TV talking about helping those who are dying to get part of the 30 billion set aside by makers of roundup or talcum powder or asbestos take your pick there’s plenty more, with no one ever held accountable, not one board member ceo corporate lawyer government inspectors or regulators ever held accountable. Does anyone know anyone alive who ever got a settlement? No there all dead and where does the 30 billion go? And why is the profit margin that high to begin with? Smoke and mirrors while they just put the money back in their ruling class pockets. We get to eat cake with more chemicals in it made in cheap disposable throw away crap designed to fail from china.

While the ones they allow to make a comfortable enough living by gouging us further go and buy a 80k pickup or pos car for 50k from the crooked ass people that are killing all of us on purpose and getting away with it.