2002 Lesabre randomly shuts off while driving - no codes (to cause this)

I received the purge valve this weekend. Replaced it. Took the old one and tried to blow thru it. I could blow thru the old purge valve, although it had some restriction.
I know it should not pass air/vacuum at all unless activated so it is bad. The new one was completely closed without an open up signal from the computer.

Tried to start it up but has basically the same problem....so I replaced the cheap MAF sensor with one I got off a 2004 LeSabre that has the letters on it. Car cranked right up.

I do think the Maff sensor is of low quality that i bought and am gonna keep the one off the 2004 lesabre on the car.

The purge valve was obviously bad or I wouldnt have been able to blow thru it.

Next I'm gonna find the info I wrote down showing how much air the MAF sensor measured compared to the MAFF sensor from the 2004 LeSabre.

I do believe the Mad Coachman was correct in following the EVAP purge system. I geassed at fuel earlu on and when that didn't fix it I got sidetracked.

I still have not driven the car since replacing the defective Purge Valve and the cheap MAF sensor.
 
dadymurano said:
I received the purge valve this weekend. Replaced it. Took the old one and tried to blow thru it. I could blow thru the old purge valve, although it had some restriction.
I know it should not pass air/vacuum at all unless activated so it is bad. The new one was completely closed without an open up signal from the computer.

Tried to start it up but has basically the same problem....so I replaced the cheap MAF sensor with one I got off a 2004 LeSabre that has the letters on it. Car cranked right up.

I do think the Maff sensor is of low quality that i bought and am gonna keep the one off the 2004 lesabre on the car.

The purge valve was obviously bad or I wouldnt have been able to blow thru it.

Next I'm gonna find the info I wrote down showing how much air the MAF sensor measured compared to the MAFF sensor from the 2004 LeSabre.

I do believe the Mad Coachman was correct in following the EVAP purge system. I geassed at fuel earlu on and when that didn't fix it I got sidetracked.

I still have not driven the car since replacing the defective Purge Valve and the cheap MAF sensor.
Click to expand...
to my readings, I believe that 2003(maybe 2004) to 2005 MAF sensors that work on series ii cars, are the highest quality OEM units with the best accuracy. I read this on the FB 3800 repair page that is popular, I did not see that anywhere else, but I figured to lend that as you may have the best quality of factory MAF sensor in using that 2004 lesabre MAF 🙂

MAF sensors are intriciate and its insane what kind of garbage is allowed to be sold out there. If you wanted a new unit, I suggest only a Delphi/HITACHI brand new unit. Time and time again we see horror stories of aftermarket MAF. often times, they dont just outright not work, they just perform so poorly that the heating element perhaps doesnt keep up with changes but is okay constant(low pedal accel, or certain tip in conditions, or temperature/humidity issues which are finicky) or they work properly, but the voltage signal it gives the PCM is just shifted entirely one way or another in the operating range, so the sensor is never correlating to MAP and Oxygen sensor data but its voltages dont trip codes.

Also, a properly working IAC and a clean throttle body are paramount to the function and proper running too!! GLad your 2004 maf is making it work though. And the Evap system is really good on these cars, but as you found a variable the computer cant detect or control for can really confuse things!!

Late 90s cars had a lot of issues with fuel pressure sensors pulling the 5 volt reference circuit LOW and causing a host of car issues all over which may still allow function

Crazy stuff lol
 
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dadymurano said:
Decided to clean the throttle body and install a new iac valve. Used a can of brake cleaner and what was left of a can of carb cleaner. Didnt take off the TB just removed the rubber intake boot and used the spray thru the iac valve hole and where the air enters the TB while opening and closing the throttle plate.

Had to do a relearn for the idle after putting it all back together. Drove it a couple of miles in the rain. Ran good and no codes appeared. I'm gonna keep increasing the distance I drive it until it acts up again.
Click to expand...
Hi all.
I'm having the same problem. Last month I replaced the front struts and the heater elbow I replaced it with metal elbow. After 2 days my problem started the car will stall the same way as the mentioned problem with your car .last week EGR valve replaced. Fuel filter replaced. ECM replaced a purge solenoid replaced . To day it did it again .please let us know how is your car ruining and did you fix the problem with the purge valve .thanks
 
Last edited:
Tahan11 said:
Hi all.
I'm having the same problem. Last month I replaced the front struts and the heater elbow I replaced it with metal elbow. After 2 days my problem started the car will stall the same way as the mentioned problem with your car .last week EGR valve replaced. Fuel filter replaced. ECM replaced a purge solenoid replaced . To day it did it again .please let us know how is your car ruining and did you fix the problem with the purge valve .thanks
Click to expand...
oh shit he came back and this time with an acct. RUN @Mad_Coachman never thought they would be back!

anyway, you replaced a PCM, with reprogramming and all, before... are your elbows leaking? They are a good straight shot above the crank and that has a camshaft sensor and a crank sensor hugging the block which if you get the crank sensor having issues it will stall. cam sensor shouldnt stall if it fails or has issue but I cant recall if its no matter what or if there was a way, like depending on what ignition mode your car is in. i would say check your ground under the ICM, check your connectors with a pic and small tools for good seal and no issues on wires.

Check for leaks, check for anything you may have hit or pinched or etc.
 
Pretty day so i cranked my leSabre. (havent drove it since my last post.) Was running fine for a few seconds. Had the driver door open. I heard a clik-a-clunk, click-a-clunk in rapid succession from what sounded like the evap canister. The car immediately died and my problem returned.
 
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I have been reluctant to go under the car. Guess I'm gonna remove my evap canister and check it out. They are a couple of utube videos' on how to check and repair the canisters. I don't know much about the ones on this lesabre, but I do think it has an electrical module on it. Sounded like it tried to initialize/activate and when it did my car died.

Just trying to keep anyone up to date on my issue with this car. I've gone from Earth to Mars trying to figure this out. I'm persistent. Not very smart, but this blind squirrel will find the nut sooner or later!
 
Still not sure why this would casue the car to die and not drive.
 
Mad_Coachman said:
Gas tank may not be venting properly. Remove your gas cap and try it.
Click to expand...
I'm just getting back to the car. I did read something about driving without the gas cap. Haven't done it yet.

I unpluged the canistor vet valve under the Car. I have a new one. Ordered it when I heard the click from that location that made the motor die.

Above after replacing the purge valve i made the statement === "The purge valve was obviously bad or I wouldnt have been able to blow thru it." === I tried blowing thru it again and cant, so I dont think my purge valva was bad.

With the vent valve under the car unpluged it runs funny sometimes. Havent driven it but to the store and back twice. Like I said I bought a new one. "vent valve" It's gonna be nice wether for a couple of days so I may work on it some more.

Not related but I have a terrible leak on my Nissan Murano from clogged sun roof drains. I also crashed my 620 datsun truck into a brick wall at very low speed due to brake failure. Bumper was removed and in the basement, so gotta pull the front out a bit so the fan doesn't rub my radiator. (cars resale seem to be going up so don't want to junk any.) Gonna buy a 2005 GMC Suburban with a new 350 small block and TBH400 tranny in great shape. I rebuilt the motor several years ago with the understanding I had 1st dibs if he sold it. 1800.00. Probably less than 10 mpg. He never drives it.
---------------------------------------------------------------

So I have plenty to work on. Gonna replace the canistor vent valve on the Lesabre. Was getting a po443 again before working on the canistor vent valve. " remember a few posts up I heard the click from that area then car died"
Another strange thing was I got a po306 code but it didnt return. Looked at the plug and the gap is too big and the electrode is whiter than it should be. Replaced it with a fairly good used plug.

Thats all for now. I do think it has to do with what the Mad Coachman eluded to. We'll know one day maybe.

I do wish I'd driven it some with the gas cap removed just to see if it made a difference. I used to get a warning that my gas cap was loose. Got a new one on it now.
 
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Drinking coffee.....waiting for the temp eo go up a few degrees. Supposed to be 60 around 1 or 2 oclock today and close to 70 this weekend.
Now I'm not a hum-bug but this is a great excuse to not spend countless hrs visiting relatives. 😈😈 I still have a job so i gotta take some time for that also....plus all the leaves i removed from the front yard.....
20211223_095944.webp20211223_095944.webpSo this is the vapor vent valve that I'm gonna throw at this problem. Not a hard job just a bit dirty and gotta get under tha car. Next few days are gonna be nice and warm. Should be able to get er done.
I know this thread has went far too long. This is my favorite car. It's just been so dependable until now. I luv the 3.8. The interior is good as well as the body and all the other stuff works on this car.
 
Didn't correct the problem. Drove it to a christmas get to gether (52 mi round trip) and it just seemed to almost die during the drive. On the freeway it would slw down for a secound then kick back in like the gas cut off for a 1/2 second. Did this 2 or 3 times.

Was at a stop and said to myself when I give it gas/ press the gas, it's gonna die, and it did. Cranked it in nuetral, put in drive and it shimmied and shook for just a moment. (set no code)

Got to my destination. Removed the gas cap and it had no effect other than I didn't get the "gas cap is loose" on my dashboard. Drove home with about the same symptoms. O, I did get a code on the way home near my house, po102. (MAF) I also replaced it with another pulapart MAF sensor that's supposed to be good and put a mark on the one i replaced. I've put 3 different MAF sensors on the car so I gotta keep up with which is which.

Today my neighboor came over as I was reinstalling the throtle body. I cleaned it up with MAF cleaner although I was hoping it would be dirty. It wasn't.

Also replaced the air cleaner while i had the Throtle body off.
Looked inside the intake and it looked good. Cranked it up while my neighboor was over and he comented on how smooth it ran.

Maybe something will break bad or it'll get well on it's on.
 
dadymurano said:
Didn't correct the problem. Drove it to a christmas get to gether (52 mi round trip) and it just seemed to almost die during the drive. On the freeway it would slw down for a secound then kick back in like the gas cut off for a 1/2 second. Did this 2 or 3 times.

Was at a stop and said to myself when I give it gas/ press the gas, it's gonna die, and it did. Cranked it in nuetral, put in drive and it shimmied and shook for just a moment. (set no code)

Got to my destination. Removed the gas cap and it had no effect other than I didn't get the "gas cap is loose" on my dashboard. Drove home with about the same symptoms. O, I did get a code on the way home near my house, po102. (MAF) I also replaced it with another pulapart MAF sensor that's supposed to be good and put a mark on the one i replaced. I've put 3 different MAF sensors on the car so I gotta keep up with which is which.

Today my neighboor came over as I was reinstalling the throtle body. I cleaned it up with MAF cleaner although I was hoping it would be dirty. It wasn't.

Also replaced the air cleaner while i had the Throtle body off.
Looked inside the intake and it looked good. Cranked it up while my neighboor was over and he comented on how smooth it ran.

Maybe something will break bad or it'll get well on it's on.
Click to expand...
sounds like a voltage issue where the 5 volt reference circuit is swinging. it could be one of the sensors on the 5 volt ref(there are 2 of them but only one would be this stuff)
do you have a charged AC system? Can you check your diodes? Your compressor might be spiking or something if they are bad. Also, have you ever replaced or checked crank sensor stuff? Have you verified your ignition system harness?

also, your Plugs and wires, what they look like? Pics of engine bay? Wire routing? Plug condition? Dielectric interface? ICM oe? Coils?
Ground wire under the the whole thing?
Hows your ground and power cables, all the connection points? Is your alternator have the S terminal on the 4 wire plug utilized? Where does it go?(if it does) (S is one of the sides, outer. the two middle ones should be used by the connector. right?)

hows your alternator GROUNDING have you ever added a ground to the case/mounts before?
 
My next part replacement, which I'v had here in the basement for a few months will be the ICM. Looking back thru the thead I've changed almost every sensor.
I have't gone over my grounds but unless one has come loose? I've added extra ground to a few vehicles in the past just cause it can't hurt but may help.

Now that I've replaced the MAF again, tried to go thru the relearn provedure that says unplug it, crank car, let idle a few minutes, turn off car, reconnect MAF sensor, clear code, crank car and drive as normal.....problem is it will not idle with the MAF sensor unpluged so I did everything else.
Just sitting in my drive it is running smooth as butter.

I probably will not test drive or do anything else "such as replacing the ICM" for a few days, and I'm gonna drive it until it acts up berfore replacing the ICM. I do wish I had a more expensive tester.

It was kinda funny I never got a dash light saying my gas cap is loose when driving home with it in the trunk. I used to get that occasionally way bck when it ran perfect. Does the gas tank pressure sensor trigger that? I'll look into it. (found this - Over time a faulty fuel tank pressure sensor will cause low fuel efficiency, trouble starting the vehicle and/or stalling, and eventually keep the vehicle from starting.) - No code?

Not gonna give up. I wish I had an answer for anyone that may have a similar issue, but their is probably not a 1 thing fix all for what I've tried to describe my car is doing.

I may take the time to put in chronological order what I've done and why I did it in one post.
 
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