1971 Buick Skylark 350 Takes forever to start

[Jackhammer0312]

A month ago I acquired an awesome 1971 Buick Skylark 350 that runs and drives good, but it takes absolutely forever to start no matter the weather. Now it will start up after about 5 seconds after I drive it somewhere like the store or to go eat and leaving it parked for a few hours and then going to start it makes it start 100 times quicker, but when I go and start it in the morning it takes around 5mins to get it started and usually ends up with me having to jump it with my truck and even then it takes awhile to start. I went through and replaced all sparkplugs, sparkplug wires, ignition coil, and distributor cap and rotor and it made no difference other than idling better. It has a small leaks here and there, one of them was the fuel pump gasket. I got a new gasket for it today and when I went to put it on I realized there was no gasket there in the first place! Thought maybe that was causing low fuel pressure or something, but alas I was wrong.

Could it be the carb (It has an Edelbrock 1405 4bbl)? Low fuel pressure? Something I'm over looking? Getting kinda desperate because I just want to start it within 30 seconds when I leave for work in the mornings. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[DrivenDaily]

Sounds like the choke is either missing or not working.

 

[Jackhammer0312]

Sounds like the choke is either missing or not working.

Choke is there and definitely works, use it when it runs. One thing I forgot to mention when I originally made the post is that when I crank it there's one regular spurt of fuel in the filter right before the carb and then a tiny spurt and then maybe a trickle, if that. It only fills up the fuel filter about 1/5 and I don't know if that's normal or if it should fill up the whole thing. First time classic owner so I'm stumbling my way through this haha

 

[MelsRegal]

What is your normal start procedure when totally cold? Do you fully depress and release the gas pedal 3 times before turning the key?
The Edelbrock carburetor uses a lower fuel pressure than the factory Quadrajet and usually requires a fuel pressure regulator set at 5 to 6 psi. Do you have a fuel pressure regulator?
When you replaced all those ignition parts did you also replace points and condenser?
Did you set point dwell angle and timing?

 

[Jackhammer0312]

What is your normal start procedure when totally cold? Do you fully depress and release the gas pedal 3 times before turning the key?
The Edelbrock carburetor uses a lower fuel pressure than the factory Quadrajet and usually requires a fuel pressure regulator set at 5 to 6 psi. Do you have a fuel pressure regulator?
When you replaced all those ignition parts did you also replace points and condenser?
Did you set point dwell angle and timing?

I've tried the 3 pump many times and still no change and the normal procedure is choke pulled all the way out then try to start be it with pumping or not, as far as I can tell no fuel regulator, I did not replace the points and condenser, and I have no idea what point dwell angle is, and i did not mess with the timing. If the points and condenser needed replacing wouldn't it run rough or something though? Once it eventually starts it runs and drives just fine, but then again I don't got much in the knowledge department on this stuff

 

[Jackhammer0312]

The Advance next to my work has a points and condenser kit for it and a fuel regulator i could slap in, so I might swing by after work and get those and see if that fixes it.

 

[MelsRegal]

I've tried the 3 pump many times and still no change and the normal procedure is choke pulled all the way out then try to start be it with pumping or not, as far as I can tell no fuel regulator, I did not replace the points and condenser, and I have no idea what point dwell angle is, and i did not mess with the timing. If the points and condenser needed replacing wouldn't it run rough or something though? Once it eventually starts it runs and drives just fine, but then again I don't got much in the knowledge department on this stuff

So you have a manual choke, have you tried not fully closing the choke unless you have really cold temperatures?
You need to do a fuel pressure test, anything above 6 psi, you need a regulator.
You went through the exercise of replacing all the other ignition components but not the actual parts that trigger ignition. The dwell angle is directly related to point gap but a dwell meter is used rather than a feeler gauge.
Personally I'm not a fan of the Edelbrock carburetors, copies of old Carter carburetors, and especially why they would use a manual choke.
Your first post mentioned a gas leak, has that been fixed?

 

[MelsRegal]

The Advance next to my work has a points and condenser kit for it and a fuel regulator i could slap in, so I might swing by after work and get those and see if that fixes it.

You will need feeler gauge or dwell meter to set the points and you will need a timing light.

 

[Jackhammer0312]

You will need feeler gauge or dwell meter to set the points and you will need a timing light.

Are either good or is one more accurate than the other? And alright.

 

[MelsRegal]

Are either good or is one more accurate than the other? And alright.

Dwell meter is more accurate and easier to use.

 

[DrivenDaily]

On the old GM engines, the points have/had an Allen screw to adjust the points by lifting a small metal window on the cap. Instead of having to stop the engine, pop the cap, and use feeler gauges to get close, the dwell can be done quicker since you're adjusting it while it runs.

As mentioned, dwell is also more accurate. A way of visualizing would be to ask you how long the hour hand on a clock indicates that it's sometime between 2:00 and 3:00. The answer is 1 hour, and that is the hour hand's dwell time. Once it reaches 3:00, it's no longer 2-something.

Dwell is specifically measured while the points are closed, which means it's while they are building a charge in the coil. When they open is when that charge becomes a spark for the plugs.

 

[LARRY70GS]

OK, I have something no one has mentioned so far. It has to do with points ignition. The factory uses a resistance wire to cut down primary voltage. That results in longer point life. The factory employs a bypass to the resistance wire, ONLY when the starter is cranking the engine. This results in a hotter spark for quicker cold starts.

This is how the stock points system works. Extending from the firewall engine harness connector(below the brake booster), is a calibrated length of special resistance wire. This wire does not extend all the way to the positive side of the coil. In the harness, it is joined by a yellow wire leading from the "R" terminal of the starter solenoid, and from there, it extends to the positive side of the coil. There is a shorting switch inside the starter solenoid. When the starter motor is cranking the engine to start, the shorting switch inside the solenoid, sends battery voltage through the yellow wire to the coil positive, effectively bypassing the resistance wire. Once the engine starts, and the key is released to the run position, the yellow wire ceases to supply voltage, and voltage flows from the firewall via the resistance wire. This drops the running voltage so that point life is maximized.

To test the system for proper functioning requires a volt meter. Connect the voltmeter between the positive side of the coil and ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. The reading should be 5.0-5.5 volts. It is important that the ignition points be closed for this test. If the points are open, the voltmeter reading will be full battery voltage. Bump the engine over until the points are closed, and check again. Again, 5.0-5.5 volts is the normal reading with the engine stopped, ignition key in the run position, and the voltmeter connected between the positive side of the coil and ground. The second part of the functionality test requires that you pull the coil wire out of the distributor, and ground it so the engine will not start. With voltmeter connected as before, crank the engine continuously, and observe the voltmeter. The reading should jump from the previous 5-5.5 volt reading up to 9 volts minimum. If it does not, it indicates a problem with the shorting switch inside the starter solenoid, or a wiring problem between the "R" terminal of the solenoid, and the coil. This will result in hard starting when cold.


This may be your problem. Do the above tests to verify. Either the shorting switch inside the starter solenoid is bad, or there is a wiring problem. You can replace the starter solenoid separately.

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[DrivenDaily]

When the starter feeds full voltage to the coil, just remember that the starter pulls a whole heck of a lot of amps, and so the battery's voltage could easily drop so low that including the resistor wire in the circuit could make it harder to start.

Providing "full voltage" during starting could be less than 10 volts going to the coil (and starter), and since it is for such a short duration, the coil won't have a chance to overheat or be damaged.

 

[Jackhammer0312]

So you have a manual choke, have you tried not fully closing the choke unless you have really cold temperatures?
You need to do a fuel pressure test, anything above 6 psi, you need a regulator.
You went through the exercise of replacing all the other ignition components but not the actual parts that trigger ignition. The dwell angle is directly related to point gap but a dwell meter is used rather than a feeler gauge.
Personally I'm not a fan of the Edelbrock carburetors, copies of old Carter carburetors, and especially why they would use a manual choke.
Your first post mentioned a gas leak, has that been fixed?

Gas leak was fixed via new pump gasket, was way too cold and windy tonight to get anything big done but did monkey around with the points thinking I knew what I was doing but it seemed like everything was doing what it was supposed to from the 5min I took to read up on it. And the Edelbrock came with it so i'm working with what i got lol. I did order a dwell meter though! No parts stores had any within 10 miles of me so ordered it through good ol ebay and should be here next week. Was reading up on those too and they're super neat so can't wait to get that done.

 

[Jackhammer0312]

Also, I did not test the ignition coil (27 and windy out there tonight) but through some cranking and videoing the fuel filter with my phone I found out that my sending unit may be the culprit. Over the past few days I've cranked and videoed it and what I've noticed is the fuel pump itself seems good, but that only a certain amount looks to be being pumped. There's one strong pump of a bunch of gas, then about half that amount, then barely a trickle, then nothing all in about 5 seconds and it's consistently like that in every video I took of the fuel filter when cranking. I noticed it did drain backwards into the hose that the pump is connected to after a second so it seems like it's just not getting anything other than that little bit already right there at the pump, so gonna order a sending unit and see what happens I guess. Fuel level never worked (gauge was completely fine though) so maybe that was a sign the sending unit was about to kaput, idk. Thanks for the tips and things I should try though, all of this is super great info and will most likely do the timing and dwell adjustment when the meter comes next week.

 

[DrivenDaily]

I hope we hear good news!

 

[MelsRegal]

Also, I did not test the ignition coil (27 and windy out there tonight) but through some cranking and videoing the fuel filter with my phone I found out that my sending unit may be the culprit. Over the past few days I've cranked and videoed it and what I've noticed is the fuel pump itself seems good, but that only a certain amount looks to be being pumped. There's one strong pump of a bunch of gas, then about half that amount, then barely a trickle, then nothing all in about 5 seconds and it's consistently like that in every video I took of the fuel filter when cranking. I noticed it did drain backwards into the hose that the pump is connected to after a second so it seems like it's just not getting anything other than that little bit already right there at the pump, so gonna order a sending unit and see what happens I guess. Fuel level never worked (gauge was completely fine though) so maybe that was a sign the sending unit was about to kaput, idk. Thanks for the tips and things I should try though, all of this is super great info and will most likely do the timing and dwell adjustment when the meter comes next week.

You are describing a bad fuel pump not a sending unit. The sending unit has a sock that can become clogged but the tank would be rusty or something entered the tank. You need to drop the tank to replace it.

 

[Jackhammer0312]

Alright so, went to finally drop the tank last night after the rain stopped and one of the tank strap bolts will not budge. I noticed the nut that I guess is supposed to be welded was turning about 120 degrees then stopping. Put a wrench on the thing and then an impact and still will not budge, even tried to tighten it back to see if I could work it back and forth and get it loose but even trying to tighten it back with the impact didn't work. Last night I did coat it with pb blaster so maybe that'll help. If it doesn't should I just get a 3' breaker bar and go to town on it?

 

[MelsRegal]

Alright so, went to finally drop the tank last night after the rain stopped and one of the tank strap bolts will not budge. I noticed the nut that I guess is supposed to be welded was turning about 120 degrees then stopping. Put a wrench on the thing and then an impact and still will not budge, even tried to tighten it back to see if I could work it back and forth and get it loose but even trying to tighten it back with the impact didn't work. Last night I did coat it with pb blaster so maybe that'll help. If it doesn't should I just get a 3' breaker bar and go to town on it?

Why are you dropping the tank rather than considering a bad fuel pump or the other suggestions above?

 

[Jackhammer0312]

Why are you dropping the tank rather than considering a bad fuel pump or the other suggestions above?

Because I need to replace the unit anyways, fuel gauge reads wayyy past full and already checked the ground for it and all that was good and cleaned off and still no luck. Figured I might as well go ahead and get that out of the way