Problem when warmed up....

frostydevil

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'94 Buick Roadmaster Limited Sedan
I've been trying to diagnose this problem for awhile now and it has me stumped as to what exactly it is. I hate throwing parts at vehicles. Anyway, the problem is intermittent, and not always present. This morning the car ran great all the way to work. Yesterday was a different story. When the motor is warmed up, and your doing say 45-50mph and torque converter is engaged, so lower rpm's, and give it slight to moderate throttle, the motor chugs, hesitates, and acts like a miss with power loss all throughout the power band. By putting it in nuetral, and reving the engine without a load, it sometimes clears up and acts normal, but always comes back. What do you guys think? Injector? EGR? Cat?
What is the proper way to test the EGR and isnt the EGR used mainly for a cold engine? I can remove the vacuum hose from the top of the EGR at a warmed up idle and nothing happens.
The Cat's seem fine with no glowing or excessive heat to suggest a plugged condition. Is there a for sure way to check for a plugged cat?
Thanks in advance guys....
 
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My RMW had the same problem; I changed the EGR, plugs, plug wires and the issue went away. Once my plugs and wires were removed they really didn't look too bad while the EGR had a lot of carbon buildup so I'm thinking the EGR was causing my issues. Hope this help and good luck.
 
Cory, since I value your opinion, would you agree? Thinkin EGR...
 
Cory, since I value your opinion, would you agree? Thinkin EGR...

Nope. The only way I can see EGR issues being fixed by a rev up(lots of vacuum after the throttle let off) is is stuck EGR that stays open. In which case, making sure it is closed, and driving around will solve that.

It really sounds a lot like the issue I had with my 95 Silver RMS(miss it more an more each day...). It ran fine somedays, and like total shit other days. It had a bad fuel pump, with a low PSI. Check the fuel PSI? You can rent a gauge at autozone for like $200(get the money back if returned in 72 hr). Put it under the wiper and drive around. I no longer consider it a fulll fuel pressure test unless I do this. I am chasing a similar issue on my Town Car right now, and it passed this test.

How ever... If I had done this on my red beater RMS... I would have saved myself a bunch of time , and effort. All it needed was fuel filter. It showned a great fuel PSI in the driveway and with revs.

If it has passed thos tests, then I may consider other areas.
 
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Your response reminded me that I also had my fuel filter changed when I did the plugs, wires and EGR. As you can see, I took the throw money at the problem approach🙂
 
Thanks Cory, I will start there. Fuel filter is only about a year old, but that doesnt mean it could be plugged. I'll get a fuel press. guage and drive around, see if I cant notice anything going awry. Fuel pump has always been loud, but your right, this could be a sign its packing its bags and leaving town.....
 
The fuel pump in my 94 Fleetwood, was extremely loud. You could hear the whine change pitch, when the brakes were applied, or the turn signal was on(uses the same harness back there). Yet, that one was used to fix the bad pump in my silver 95 RMS.
 
LMAO....
I HATE intermitten problems. This whole past week, the car has been running like a top! Going to wait for it to start acting up again to get the fuel pressure guage, hopefully I can catch it. Or I could wait until it fails all together and then I would really know what the problem is. Just annoying not having the power sometimes to blow that mustang away at the stoplights.
 
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frostydevil,

have you had any resolution to this issue? It sounds very similar to the issue I am having. I have replaced the fuel filter and checked fuel pressure, but no joy. Wondering if you have found the culprit, and if you could please share your experience.
 
Frosty...yup, ive had that kinda issue for years. Improved it a little here and there by throwing parts and multiple mechanics at it, replaced damn near everything, but mechanics opinions point to injectors, as the problem went away with strong in tank injector cleaner.

The QualoSS manual does point to the EGR being a usual culprit, or even oxygen sensors IIRC.

Also could be my fuel filter, as I think it may be on the factory orig.

I store my RMW over the winter, and I know that when I start it up this year that missing will be present yet again. It's drivable, just bloody annoying right??

I dunno if the PCV valve would have anything to do with it, im no expert...Cory?
 
PCV and fuel filter should be replace yearly! do them! They are cheap. PCV you can do yourself. Fuel filter is very easy as well if you have any basic tools.
 
Turns out my issue has been deeper....I have an intermitten electrical problem that seems to be tied into every system from the body, hvac, and now the power train. this f$^kin gremlin has got me beat...I'm sooo close to just rippin the motor and tranny out of it, and dumpin it!
 
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I've been trying to diagnose this problem for awhile now and it has me stumped as to what exactly it is. I hate throwing parts at vehicles. Anyway, the problem is intermittent, and not always present.
Intermittent problems are usually electrical in nature, but can be something like bad gas or a stuck valve upon occasion.

What is the proper way to test the EGR and isnt the EGR used mainly for a cold engine? I can remove the vacuum hose from the top of the EGR at a warmed up idle and nothing happens.
No, the EGR is for a warmed up engine under load at speed. It opens at that time to admit a bit of exhaust gas into the intake to reduce NOx emissions. It closes at idle and is partly open under light load conditions. If you remove the hose at idle, it should open and the idle should get lumpy, with a slight improvement when you plug the open vacuum line. No vacuum on the line indicates a leaky vacuum line or failure of the EGR control solenoid, no movement of the EGR pintle indicates leaky EGR diaphragm. If you can see the EGR valve moving when you connect/disconnect the line then you probably have plugged EGR passages. This won't cause what you are describing though. What could be an issue is if the EGR valve is sticking open sometimes. Mind you, that will affect idle far worse than part-throttle operation.

The Cat's seem fine with no glowing or excessive heat to suggest a plugged condition. Is there a for sure way to check for a plugged cat?
Put a vacuum gauge on the car. Start the engine and run at a fast but constant idle. Note the vacuum reading. Watch it for several minutes. If the reading slowly drops, your exhaust is plugged up -- generally the cat. But again, this is not an intermittent problem. If it's plugged, it's plugged, period.

Same with the fuel filter -- it doesn't mysteriously unplug itself either. Fuel filters generally slowly start plugging up so that the engine won't develop full power at high throttle settings -- pulling up a hill for example -- and gradually get worse and worse. Electric fuel pump issues can be intermittent though, as can fuel pressure regulator issues. And contaminated fuel is always a very real possibility -- especially with today's ethanol blends (ethanol loves to attract water). Never fill your tank within an hour of a fuel delivery at the gas station -- it stirs up all the water and other crap that settles to the bottom of the underground tank.

If you can catch it on a day when it is acting up, it would be worthwhile to perform a fuel pressure test by connecting a gauge to the rail on the engine. Unfortunately, the RM uses hard plastic fuel lines so you can't test the regulator by pinching off a rubber hose. You have to install a temporary shut-off valve in-line. You can get an idea of what's going on by watching the short- and long-term fuel trim values with a scan tool though. Ideally, the trim should be around 127 +/- 20. If you see trim values way off to one end or the other (eg near 0 or 256) that indicates the computer is trying desperately to compensate for something. Either an o2 sensor is way out of whack, or there is a real fuel delivery problem.

Given your symptoms, I'd be looking very closely at the ignition cap, wires,plugs etc. and all the associated connectors; the PCM connectors -- especially the ground; body and engine ground cables and the battery terminals for loose or corroded connections. While you are looking, check the intake system to make sure it hasn't ingested a loose plastic bag or rag.

If that all checks out, then I'd look at the throttle position sensor (TPS) (if it's worn out, the computer doesn't know you have pressed the accelerator and won't bump up the injector pulse width). The resistance should change steadily and evenly as the sensor is moved through it's range. Any jumps or pauses indicates the sensor is faulty.

Similarly, the mass airflow sensor (MAS) sensor affects what the computer knows about how much air is entering the engine. The system uses a special heated wire that changes it's resistance as it is cooled by the airflow so you can't easily measure it's performance but it is very sensitive to poor connections (high resistance) and dirt or oil on the wire itself (insulates the wire from the airflow)

The knock sensor is another possibility -- if the PCM thinks the engine is knocking, it retards the timing. IIRC, by 94 GM had done away with the old ESC module that controlled the retard and the KS is connected directly to the PCM so I think any problem with that should throw a code.

Evap cannister purge system. This is an electrically controlled vacuum leak. Electrical faults will be detected by the PCM and throw a code, but the valve could still physically stick and leak vacuum.
 
you are very correct buickwagon...please see previous post...(we must have posted at the same time....)
 
Turns out my issue has been deeper....I have an intermitten electrical problem that seems to be tied into every system from the body, hvac, and now the power train. this f$^kin gremlin has got me beat...I'm sooo close to just rippin the motor and tranny out of it, and dumpin it!

Ok, I see you posted this about 1 minute before I finished the above post.

System wide problems like that are very very very often related to the body ground connections or the PCM ground connections. Could also be as simple as loose battery connections. At worst, it's a problem with the PCM itself. Believe it or not, this actually makes things EASIER to track down.
 
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Ok, I see you posted this about 1 minute before I finished the above post.

System wide problems like that are very very very often related to the body ground connections or the PCM ground connections. Could also be as simple as loose battery connections. At worst, it's a problem with the PCM itself.

TPS is brand new 4 months ago and steady resistance measures fine with a scanner. No fluctuation in voltage from O2 sensors beyond normal. PCM was swapped with one that works, but same symptoms remain. Body ground conncetions have been redone. Batt connections have always been tight, and clean. No signs of mice. please see this post where a new problem has cropped up....
http://www.buickforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21319

This new problem has me flabbergasted. I've had dash problems, blower (HVAC) problems, hesitation issues, and now the tranny. I've had the complete car almost ripped apart and put together 2-3 times now, looking for this gremlin of mine. I'm about out of options.....
 
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Sorry, I'm in the middle of something -- I'll look at your other thread later.

Just a thought: does the 94 have the power to the rest of the car routed through the starter connection or a take-off terminal on the fender?
 
Im pretty sure its a take off terminal on the fender/passenger side closer to the firewall. It has been changed to the brass post, and connection looks clean.
 
Ok, gonna drag this over here from the other thread.

Code 83 will set if the PWM solenoid voltage remains high for more than 2 seconds when commanded "on" or remains low for more than 2 seconds when commanded "off" by the PCM.

Codes 24 and 72 both relate to the Vehicle speed sensor loss. Again, it's electrical in nature. The yellow and purple wires at the VSS should have at least 4 volts with the ignition On. If it does, then the problem is intermittent or the VSS is faulty.

Let's assume for the moment that the sensor is actually fine and this is related to a general electrical issue. If not, then run a wire down from the battery + and connect a test light between it and the purple wire. If it lights, you have a power problem. If it doesn't, you have a ground problem.

All of the above can be caused by a bad ground at the PCM.
 
Where is the PCM grounded or which wire is it?
The VSS is fine, as a brand new one was put in and it didnt change any of the symptons. The fact that sometimes it works fine and sometimes not, is really frustrating. I have replaced the wiring directly from the PCM to the VSS and theres no change... I will try connceting a test light this evening. Will I need the car running or the key in the on position at least?
 
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