2000-2005 LeSabre - Which Year and Model to Buy?

[celcius232]

Since I acquired a 2004 LeSabre Limited with 78K miles I am considering finding another one for a family member.

What are the members opinions about the best year and model to look for and which options are most desirable and/or problematic? I am not familiar with the mechanical changes that GM did from year to year, but I recall there may have been some slight drivetrain improvements for the 04-05 models. Rust is not generally an issue out west, but the ones on the local used market usually have well over 150-200K. I am tending towards a locating Custom model with cloth interior as the upholstery seems to hold up a bit better than the leather that Buick used in the era, but that may be a function of the low humidity where I live.

Thanks in advance for the

 

[Gluttenforpunishment]

My bad, reading comprehension is off today…

 

[lbear]

The 2004-2005 model years had the 4T65E transmission which was an upgrade from the 4T60E transmission of the later years.

I prefer the Limited versions which have the added options but the Celebration Edition is the one with the added HUD, chrome wheels, special front end badging and seat emblems.

What killed these cars was the rust. While the drivetrains lasted if maintained, the rust ended up making the cars not safe for road use. The cars ended up being scrapped. Finding a rust free car is key but that means the southern or desert southwest areas is where to look.

 

[incommunicado]

I don't know much about Buick but my 2005 Lesabre has taken untold amounts of punishment and abuse even though it had 200+++ on it when I got her ..
So I will recommend a 2005 .. I am curious to know what's the difference between a custom and a limited when I go to buy a few more of these

 

[02LTD]

The Limited comes standard with the leather interior (including a rear armrest). It also has the tachometer and the Driver Info Center which allows you to check oil pressure, voltage, gas mileage and other things. Also included is the Auto Climate control with rear seat air ducts in between the front seats.

 

[2007LucerneCXL]

Getting the base model vs a loaded model is a great way to avoid unwanted problems with age and electronics if the purpose is a soild basic transportation.

A cloth interior may be something that could be on the list as most will be in better shape than the leather and require little maintenance.

As mentioned rust is the problem if body, frame or brake/fuel/evap lines and while the vehicle may be mechanically sound these other areas may present service problems later.

 

[BuickGirlFromMars]

The 2004-2005 model years had the 4T65E transmission which was an upgrade from the 4T60E transmission of the later years.

I prefer the Limited versions which have the added options but the Celebration Edition is the one with the added HUD, chrome wheels, special front end badging and seat emblems.

What killed these cars was the rust. While the drivetrains lasted if maintained, the rust ended up making the cars not safe for road use. The cars ended up being scrapped. Finding a rust free car is key but that means the southern or desert southwest areas is where to look.

the 4t65e has been used on all 2000+ lesabres
The 1997 or 1998 lesabre was probably the first year for it in the prev gen

The 4t60e overlapped the last couple years a bit
The 04/05 4t65e are very very good compared to earlier ones in terms of parts quality and durability

 

[BuickGirlFromMars]

I don't know much about Buick but my 2005 Lesabre has taken untold amounts of punishment and abuse even though it had 200+++ on it when I got her ..
So I will recommend a 2005 .. I am curious to know what's the difference between a custom and a limited when I go to buy a few more of these

before you ever touch your brakes consult with me
if your car needs brake parts there is way too many possible parts that fit tbut only certain ones go together on your year
If it was an older production model the original brakes were much nicer than most of us cars(park avenues as well in 2005)

 

[celcius232]

Thanks for all the advice.

Do all Park Avenues come with leather interior and is it a higher quality leather than the LeSabre leather? Are there other major drivetrain/suspension differences with the PA models versus the LeSabre?

I am still on the hunt for a low mile rust free one. No hurry and hopefully the right one will appear soon. I notice the demand has gone up a bit and even one guy was running a want ad on Craigslist looking for one.

 

[imidazol97]

The 4T65E transmission was first used in the 1998 leSabre IIRC. 1997 had the 4T60.

In 2003 there were some modifications made to the transmission for improved
longevity, one of which was the splines on the tube which was used for 4th gear.
Splines wore on earlier versions and the 4th gear would not engage through that
external shaft.

Be aware the some of the supercharged versions such as the Bonnevilles had a HD
version of the transmission. And I believe there were two different output ratios
used in the leSabre. I recall that because I believe the Touring suspension model
I considered but rejected in 2003 had a higher numerical ratio, giving a feeling of
more power.

I'm wary of the Wiki info because often sources are putting in wrong info, but
this may help.

GM 4T60-E transmission - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BuickGirlFromMars]

Thanks for all the advice.

Do all Park Avenues come with leather interior and is it a higher quality leather than the LeSabre leather? Are there other major drivetrain/suspension differences with the PA models versus the LeSabre?

I am still on the hunt for a low mile rust free one. No hurry and hopefully the right one will appear soon. I notice the demand has gone up a bit and even one guy was running a want ad on Craigslist looking for one.

same quality leather, loaded PA seats are better than loaded Lesabre seats. But PA early years had Cloth power seats , lesabre had cloth/leeather manual and power seats.

 

[incommunicado]

before you ever touch your brakes consult with me
if your car needs brake parts there is way too many possible parts that fit tbut only certain ones go together on your year
If it was an older production model the original brakes were much nicer than most of us cars(park avenues as well in 2005)

I definitely have to change the pads soon and I was hoping to put some ceramics on there to be sure they're nice and quiet at night .. I get brake fade (I think that's what it is called) way too quickly also and so I probably have to bleed them and put new fluid in
They're working perfectly it seems but if I hold the brake for a few seconds going down the road the pedal gets stiff and braking ability is severely reduced for awhile
Old fluid causes that, right???

 

[lbear]

I definitely have to change the pads soon and I was hoping to put some ceramics on there to be sure they're nice and quiet at night .. I get brake fade (I think that's what it is called) way too quickly also and so I probably have to bleed them and put new fluid in
They're working perfectly it seems but if I hold the brake for a few seconds going down the road the pedal gets stiff and braking ability is severely reduced for awhile
Old fluid causes that, right???

Hard to say exactly but make sure the piston pins are properly lubed and all hardware and caliper is in good shape.

Bad brake fluid usually causes strange pedal travel as hydraulic pressure gets wacky. It could be your issue. Changing out the fluid with DOT 3 synthetic is a good idea.

Pulsation while braking is usually caused by warped rotors. A proper brake job consists of insalling new rotors along with new pads. Most of the time, people just swap new pads on and don't touch the rotor. That usually leads to brake pulsations. You can cut/machine the old rotor but most places won't cut rotors anymore.

 

[BuickGirlFromMars]

I definitely have to change the pads soon and I was hoping to put some ceramics on there to be sure they're nice and quiet at night .. I get brake fade (I think that's what it is called) way too quickly also and so I probably have to bleed them and put new fluid in
They're working perfectly it seems but if I hold the brake for a few seconds going down the road the pedal gets stiff and braking ability is severely reduced for awhile
Old fluid causes that, right???

i concur with lbear

but your 'it gets harder" sure sounds like it may be a bad or weak booster or bad hose/check valve to it

 

[incommunicado]

i concur with lbear

but your 'it gets harder" sure sounds like it may be a bad or weak booster or bad hose/check valve to it

Ah.. I see

 

[imidazol97]

What happens when you turn the engine off and wait about 30 seconds.
Then apply the brake pedal (with engine off) and see how it acts then. If it
continues to have a good assistance with the air pressure helping apply the
brake and doesn't sink slowly, you may be okay.

Then I think you can idle the engine for a minute. Then turn off. Apply the pedal, let up, apply, let up, apply. IIRC you should have enough vacuum assist from the vacuum in the booster drum for 3 applications. The third one may be noticeably harder, but still has air pressure helping apply the brakes.

I'm curious what your engine's vacuum reading is at idle. If the engine has wear in the timing chain and rings, the vacuum won't be as high to begin with even while it's running. Check the large tube to the booster for cracks or rotted areas that are leaking air in while engine is running.

 

[incommunicado]

I really didn't mean to Hijack the post and I'm not sure of how everyone knows that my brakes need work or how we got started talking about my brakes, even .. but I'll start a thread about it and I apologize to the person who posted this post 📫 😅

 

[incommunicado]

What happens when you turn the engine off and wait about 30 seconds.
Then apply the brake pedal (with engine off) and see how it acts then. If it
continues to have a good assistance with the air pressure helping apply the
brake and doesn't sink slowly, you may be okay.

Then I think you can idle the engine for a minute. Then turn off. Apply the pedal, let up, apply, let up, apply. IIRC you should have enough vacuum assist from the vacuum in the booster drum for 3 applications. The third one may be noticeably harder, but still has air pressure helping apply the brakes.

I'm curious what your engine's vacuum reading is at idle. If the engine has wear in the timing chain and rings, the vacuum won't be as high to begin with even while it's running. Check the large tube to the booster for cracks or rotted areas that are leaking air in while engine is running.

With the engine off it seems to have plenty of pressure for quite a while before the pedal gets tight

 

[incommunicado]

i concur with lbear

but your 'it gets harder" sure sounds like it may be a bad or weak booster or bad hose/check valve to it

I don't know I have zero braking issues ever but when I was braking while accelerating in order to try to diagnose a front end noise that's when I notice that they fade quickly
It seems kinda like when you're the vehicle being pulled by another and you go overboard holding the brake kinda
And it seems to happen far too soon like before they could be hot or anything and they don't smell hot

 

[incommunicado]

Hard to say exactly but make sure the piston pins are properly lubed and all hardware and caliper is in good shape.

Bad brake fluid usually causes strange pedal travel as hydraulic pressure gets wacky. It could be your issue. Changing out the fluid with DOT 3 synthetic is a good idea.

Pulsation while braking is usually caused by warped rotors. A proper brake job consists of insalling new rotors along with new pads. Most of the time, people just swap new pads on and don't touch the rotor. That usually leads to brake pulsations. You can cut/machine the old rotor but most places won't cut rotors anymore.

I don't want to end up with aftermarket rotors and the ones I have are well within spec and true and straight so I'm change the pads before they get too much thinner .. I don't have pulsating brakes now that my front end issues are fixed