A/C just quit

hotrodder

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Buick Ownership
Buick '96 RMW,
A/C system has quit ... again. '96 RMW

Last month, A/C stopped working. Had NO freon in system. So, recharged, added oil, added dye, and added sealer... Two days later...NO A/C. System empty. We loked with blacklight, but very quickly and did not see any tell tale colors to identify leak. Suggested that I remove A/C Pan in passenger compartment and see if leak shows up inside heater box. HATE THAT JOB, and cannot do until early Jan. so I have yet to tackle that part. Now, 3 days later, after looking (without blacklight) noticed black goo from one pipe at hold down connection on fender wall. With further inspection noticed oily film on compressor pulley ( on compressor side of pulley and before clutch assembly), and on the outside of clutch hub in center of pulley. Don't have light handy to further identify if it is dye or oil but seems fairly fresh.
My feeling is that the compressor is leaking from front area.

My question is one about replacement. A) New from dealer
B) Rebuilt, available from Autozone or other supplier, C) one from junked LT1 Buick or Chevy if available. Anybody have estimates for any of all three alternatives as well as labor charges?
Thanks for the input.
Hotrodder
 
Update.

I've been pondering the A/C problem for 2 day, and now my failing memory has kicked in and recalls the following.

whenever I would kick in the a/c, I would hear a brief ( .5 sec.) squeel as if the belt was slipping. ( probably was!). It has been this was over the past 2 years.
Once warm, the ac would kick in quietly.

Last week, when we put in the new AC freon, we added oil to the system because the mechanic heard a slight "noise" (Hum or bearing) and the oil quieted down the noise.

Adding up this history, along with the wet( slight) oil film on the compresor leads me to believe that the bearing /seal was failing for a long time, and now has finally crapped out.

Does anybody have a lead as to which compressor manf/replacement to use wthout taking off the whole compressor to find maked ID ? What is stock brand/model? Once removed, the belt will not fit and the car will be inoperable till compressor is replaced, therfore, I want parts at hand before tackling job.
Lots of brands available, and variety of prices when Googled.

What is interchangable with LT1 motor... Caprice? Impala SS?

Thanks for assistance.
If anybody has motor out, can you identify which compressor is right one?
 
well you can do all of this with the compressor still on the vehicle
Bearing remove and replacement is very hard on GM i hear

check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn9N5sypuME

you need a clutch puller to get this part off the compressor
 
First off, I suggest you review the AC sticky I wrote.

The first thing you have to consider right now is what kind of sealer you put in the system. If you used a hardening sealer (aka "professional" aka "seals leaks in metal", then your system is probably done. Those sealers can plug the orifice and destroy the compressor. The residue is essentially impossible to remove. They are like an epoxy in that they set hard. The catalyst is moisture so if there is any moisture in the system at all, you will have tiny particles of hardened sealer floating around in there, grinding away at your compressor and plugging things up. You may as well have thrown in a handful of sand. The ONLY excuse for using a hardening sealer is when there is a known small leak in the evapourator, the labour for replacing the evapourator exceeds the value of the car (or at least, the value of having AC) and you are willing to write off the AC system if it doesn't work. Hardening sealer should ONLY be used AFTER the accumulator is replaced and the system thoroughly evacuated with a deep vacuum for several hours on a warm day. Not with one of those cheap air-compressor powered vacuum pumps either -- you need, at a minimum, a single stage electric vacuum pump. (Harbour Fright actually sells an acceptable pump for a reasonable price.)

The other kind of sealer is supposed to swell seals and stop "soft" leaks like o-rings and seals. First off, nothing can stop a compressor seal leak except a new compressor seal. Second, it's unlikely they will even stop an o-ring leak. OTOH, seal swell additives probably won't destroy your system either.

You mention a black goo coming from a line. In AC circles, this is commonly called "black death". Usually the result of moisture contamination in the system, but sealers can certainly contribute. Many AC oils are hygroscopic, that is, they have a great affinity for water. Couple that with metallic residue from compressor wear and the resultant sludge gums up the system, plugging the orifice and/or screen.

Best case scenario, you are looking at a major overhaul here. Forget those "flush in a can" kits -- they do not have the volume and pressure to clean out your system. A high-volume flushing machine might work for some things like lines and difficult to access parts like the evaporator. There is only one DIY flushing system that I would even consider, the Hecat pulsator system. It's not cheap ($400) though so you might be better just to replace the parts, especially since it sounds like you have to replace at least one of the lines anyway.

Some parts cannot be flushed, period. The compressor is one, the parallel-flow condenser is another. All lines must be separated and all components flushed individually. The accumulator/dryer must be replaced anytime the system is opened for more than a couple of hours on a dry day or minutes on a humid day -- and "open" includes "leaked down to 0". Your orifice is undoubtedly plugged by now.

The compressor is a bit of a crap shoot at this point. You know the seal is leaking. Since there is evidence of "black death", the compressor must be removed, the sludge (I won't call it oil anymore) drained, case split, innards cleaned out and inspected, new seals installed. Do you know if it was working properly? IE: did you take readings with a manifold gauge set that showed a normal pressure differential last time you recharged it? If so, there's a chance it is salvageable and might be worth saving.

At this point, assuming you did not use a "professional" sealer, and assuming there is no evidence of dye at the condensate drain (use a compact fluorescent bulb in a drop-light. The LED flashlights and incandescent bulbs are virtually useless) I would replace at least the leaking line, and preferably the others too. If you don't replace the other lines, at least replace the o-rings on them. I would just bite the bullet and replace the compressor. Replace the orifice, accumulator and condenser. Install an in-line filter between the accumulator and the compressor. When installing the new compressor, drain out the shipping oil and install fresh oil. Put a couple of ounces of oil in the accumulator and a half ounce or so in the condenser. Put the balance of a full charge in the compressor. GM specifies PAG oil, but I personally prefer ester. Add an ounce of dye (or buy oil with the dye already in it, which is what I do).

If you used a "professional" sealer, then there is no debate: just replace everything or do without AC. You are kidding yourself and wasting your money if you think you can get it all out again.

Once everything is all buttoned up, pull a hard vacuum overnight in a warm location. Ideally, over 70°F. The vacuum may tell you if you still have a leak (not always -- some things will leak under pressure but not under vacuum and vice-versa) but more importantly, you are boiling off any residual water vapour hiding in the system. Literally -- a hard vacuum will lower the boiling point of water to less than room temperature! Run the pump for about 1/2 an hour the first time. If you still see vapour coming from the pump discharge, leave it run longer. After leaving the system to boil for several hours, run the pump again for another 1/2 hour. If you still have visible vapour, leave it for another few hours. The pressure may climb slightly the first couple of times, as the "steam" fills the system, but eventually you should see no pressure rise after sitting an hour.

Purge your fill hose! Easy if you are using a manifold gauge set, but may not be possible with a cheap fill kit from Wally World. Fill with liquid (ie: invert the can before opening) to get the most out of it. Do not overfill! The weight of the contents are on the side of the can. Add 'em up and compare to the sticker on the AC system. For the first can, the vacuum will suck most of it in before you start the engine. You can warm the can (pot of hot water, lay it on the warm engine) to get the most out of it.

Sorry, I'm sure you really didn't want to hear any of the above, but them's the harsh facts.
 
#^$&^*&,

Lots of info to digest from Buickwagon. MANY THANKS for the education.

THanks,

Will check on type of sealer used, and the line that seems to be leaking, to see what is still salvagable in the system. Since I feel that the compressor is the culprit, I was planning to get a new one. I found a kit that replaces the accumulator,compressor, O rings, and orifice in one fell swoop. Don't know if brands are any difrerent, but the prices range from under $200 for a new 4 Seasons brand, to almost $350 for AC Delco.
Not planning to keep the wagon for more that another year so I'm not sure that I will go for GM OEM.
Anybody interested in making an early offer should get in touch with me shortly!

Am working with a knowledgable mechanic ( I thought) and was following his recommendations about sealer and recharging. He has had good luck with it, but don't know the brand at this moment. We did evacuate system for about 1 hour before recharging, and it held a vacuum ( on gauges) before adding new charge. In addition, it held the charge pressure after filling ( verified by gauges) for about 1/2 hour. It leaked out after 2-3 days.

Looks like I have to be ready to replace all parts at one time so that the car is back on the road ASAP and not loose time waiting for parts. I dn't feel like buying replacement pulley to keep the car running while parts come in. I want to pay only one time for labor in R&R work.
Thanks to all
Will update when repaired for the education of the next visitor.
Hotrodder.
 
Update.

Had to replace compressor, dryer, orifice and o rings. ( in a kit). Blew out and used acetone to clean all lines. Had to use professional mechanic due to lack of tools/lift.

Compressor showed faint color from dye at nose of compressor and behind pulleys. Probably a seal went at the nose.

Not an easy removal of the compressor!!!!!

Had to jack up engine from mount and get in behind compressor to remove lines. ( removed sway bar, pulleys alternator, and almost had to remove idler arm and steering damper). ( hope this helps anybody trying to do it DIY).
Holding vacuum overnight and then will charge in the AM.
Thanks for the advice.
Hotrodder
 
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