Making the buick regal gs supercharged faster
- Thread author Tyler M
- Start date
Mr. Brownstone
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The Pontiac Grand Prix GTP shares the same engine and upgrade/modding options.
http://www.regalgs.org/gsx.shtml
http://www.fabini.com/slp/slpbuickgsx.html
http://www.regalgs.org/gsx.shtml
http://www.fabini.com/slp/slpbuickgsx.html
92roadie
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Your not ready for a smaller pulley yet. You'll pop a piston.
Here's a few things to start with:
1. Cold Air Intake. Theres a few options here, you could gut your stock air box and throw in a K&N air filter, make your own CAI, or buy one from a vendor such as zzperformance, 3800 performance, or intense racing.
2. throw in a set of autolite 605's copper spark plugs and oem wires.
(helps kill KR)
3. install a 180* thermostat and drill a 1/8 hole in the outer ring. (helps kill KR)
4. do the ubend delete mod. Along with a 3' downpipe and a catback
5. buy or find someone with a scanner/turner.
6. Now you can consider the smaller pulley. No smaller than 3.4 with the mods listed above.
There a lot to be done to these cars, people have them running in the 13's and some get them in the 12's just play it smart with your mods. Were always fighting KR in these S/C 3.8's.
Here's a few things to start with:
1. Cold Air Intake. Theres a few options here, you could gut your stock air box and throw in a K&N air filter, make your own CAI, or buy one from a vendor such as zzperformance, 3800 performance, or intense racing.
2. throw in a set of autolite 605's copper spark plugs and oem wires.
(helps kill KR)
3. install a 180* thermostat and drill a 1/8 hole in the outer ring. (helps kill KR)
4. do the ubend delete mod. Along with a 3' downpipe and a catback
5. buy or find someone with a scanner/turner.
6. Now you can consider the smaller pulley. No smaller than 3.4 with the mods listed above.
There a lot to be done to these cars, people have them running in the 13's and some get them in the 12's just play it smart with your mods. Were always fighting KR in these S/C 3.8's.
First of all, welcome to the world of the L67, GMs supercharged Series II 3.8 liter V6. But you need to be careful of modifying these engines by adding a smaller supercharger pulley without installing the proper up-front modifications (which have already been covered, but not in great detail). A good lesson to begin with is what happens in these engines even in stock trim.
KR, or knock retard, is a timing condition present in the PCM of these cars that backs off (or retards) the timing of the ignition system when the knock sensors detect detonation in the cylinder bores of your engine. KR is meant as a safety mechanism to ensure survival of the engine, but KR will rob your vehicle of performance potential, too. 3 to 4 degrees of KR on a stock vehicle is noted as within an "acceptable" range to some people. Ideally, there should be no KR present. Tuning the vehicle via a tuning software on a laptop computer is the best way to get rid of detonation and KR. It is very time intensive and the programs are expensive. More on that later.
This condition (KR) usually occurs at WOT (wide open throttle), but can occur elsewhere in your day-to-day travels. KR will pop up during WOT and full boost or part-throttle acceleration with mild boost. Since these engines are supercharged (and forcing more air through the engine) they need more fuel when the supercharger is producing boost. Lack of fuel compensation by the way the stock PCM is "tuned" is sometimes blamed as the culprit and the lean condition contributes to detonation potential and the KR to control it. GM engineers did want these cars to be fairly economical while running premium fuel, so bumping the fuel curve in the "rich" direction a little farther wasn't a great idea to them. But there are other variables, too. KR will even spike as the transmission prepares to shift. That one takes much more explanation and I don't even fully understand it yet.
I have a stock engine with some basic "free" mods, but I'm battling KR alot even with the stock 3.8" pulley. I have a Palm IIIxe that is loaded with the LS1M scanning program. By means of a special cable and translator plugged into the OBDII port, I am able to view real-time vehicle data, log/save it, and download it in Excel on my computer and look at readings from the PCM. This is not a tuning program that allows the user to modify the PCM. It is useful to look at numerous data sets and see how your vehicle is operating and if it's within certain parameters. So I am able to see how much KR I have and compare that to throttle position, engine RPM, vehicle speed, injector duty cycle and pulse-width, what my O2 sensor readings are, etc., etc., etc. It's a very useful tool, but not a real tuning solution.
Many things cause detonation and the KR to help control it. But it is mainly caused by excessive heat and some of that heat comes from increased backpressure in the exhaust system of these cars, which causes increased cylinder temps and can (and will) lead to catastrophic engine failure usually in the form of chipped pistons.
These cars are supercharged (and finicky), so we're expecting these engines to move as much air as possible. But you must maintain (if possible) a balance from the input side (air intake, throttle body, and supercharger) through the output side (restrictive exhaust manifolds, downpipe, catalytic convertor (actually isn't bad), crappy u-bend, resonator, crush-bent exhaust pipe, and restrictive muffler).
You can already see that there is much more to be done on the output side of this equation (upwards of $1000+) to even begin thinking about preparing for a smaller pulley on the blower. Recalibrated PCMs (tuned to a specific lot of modifications) are also helpful, but tuning programs offer much more flexibility in getting YOUR car to run to its full potential without damaging the engine. PCMs can be had for $100, tuning programs are $400+.
Putting that cold-air intake will help put more air and cooler air into the intake system, but that increased air volume will need more fuel to go with it. So you'll be running lean (KR problems). Add headers and a full 3" mandrel-bent exhaust system and your low-end torque will all but disappear. And it will lean you out even more. You'll need to spend alot of time with a tuning program to massage fuel, timing, and other parameters to let the car run all out worry-free.
Try looking at some of this to get started:
www.RegalGS.org
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/articles.php?wp=1
www.LS1M.com
www.PFYC.com
www.wbodystore.com
www.clubgp.com
www.3800pro.com/forum
www.3800performance.com
www.intense-racing.com
Take your time and do some research. Let people on the forums know that you want to be cautious and patient. They will work with you and help you out.
Best of luck.
Todd
KR, or knock retard, is a timing condition present in the PCM of these cars that backs off (or retards) the timing of the ignition system when the knock sensors detect detonation in the cylinder bores of your engine. KR is meant as a safety mechanism to ensure survival of the engine, but KR will rob your vehicle of performance potential, too. 3 to 4 degrees of KR on a stock vehicle is noted as within an "acceptable" range to some people. Ideally, there should be no KR present. Tuning the vehicle via a tuning software on a laptop computer is the best way to get rid of detonation and KR. It is very time intensive and the programs are expensive. More on that later.
This condition (KR) usually occurs at WOT (wide open throttle), but can occur elsewhere in your day-to-day travels. KR will pop up during WOT and full boost or part-throttle acceleration with mild boost. Since these engines are supercharged (and forcing more air through the engine) they need more fuel when the supercharger is producing boost. Lack of fuel compensation by the way the stock PCM is "tuned" is sometimes blamed as the culprit and the lean condition contributes to detonation potential and the KR to control it. GM engineers did want these cars to be fairly economical while running premium fuel, so bumping the fuel curve in the "rich" direction a little farther wasn't a great idea to them. But there are other variables, too. KR will even spike as the transmission prepares to shift. That one takes much more explanation and I don't even fully understand it yet.
I have a stock engine with some basic "free" mods, but I'm battling KR alot even with the stock 3.8" pulley. I have a Palm IIIxe that is loaded with the LS1M scanning program. By means of a special cable and translator plugged into the OBDII port, I am able to view real-time vehicle data, log/save it, and download it in Excel on my computer and look at readings from the PCM. This is not a tuning program that allows the user to modify the PCM. It is useful to look at numerous data sets and see how your vehicle is operating and if it's within certain parameters. So I am able to see how much KR I have and compare that to throttle position, engine RPM, vehicle speed, injector duty cycle and pulse-width, what my O2 sensor readings are, etc., etc., etc. It's a very useful tool, but not a real tuning solution.
Many things cause detonation and the KR to help control it. But it is mainly caused by excessive heat and some of that heat comes from increased backpressure in the exhaust system of these cars, which causes increased cylinder temps and can (and will) lead to catastrophic engine failure usually in the form of chipped pistons.
These cars are supercharged (and finicky), so we're expecting these engines to move as much air as possible. But you must maintain (if possible) a balance from the input side (air intake, throttle body, and supercharger) through the output side (restrictive exhaust manifolds, downpipe, catalytic convertor (actually isn't bad), crappy u-bend, resonator, crush-bent exhaust pipe, and restrictive muffler).
You can already see that there is much more to be done on the output side of this equation (upwards of $1000+) to even begin thinking about preparing for a smaller pulley on the blower. Recalibrated PCMs (tuned to a specific lot of modifications) are also helpful, but tuning programs offer much more flexibility in getting YOUR car to run to its full potential without damaging the engine. PCMs can be had for $100, tuning programs are $400+.
Putting that cold-air intake will help put more air and cooler air into the intake system, but that increased air volume will need more fuel to go with it. So you'll be running lean (KR problems). Add headers and a full 3" mandrel-bent exhaust system and your low-end torque will all but disappear. And it will lean you out even more. You'll need to spend alot of time with a tuning program to massage fuel, timing, and other parameters to let the car run all out worry-free.
Try looking at some of this to get started:
www.RegalGS.org
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/articles.php?wp=1
www.LS1M.com
www.PFYC.com
www.wbodystore.com
www.clubgp.com
www.3800pro.com/forum
www.3800performance.com
www.intense-racing.com
Take your time and do some research. Let people on the forums know that you want to be cautious and patient. They will work with you and help you out.
Best of luck.
Todd
G
G-23877
dang todd he just wanted a couple xtra hp not a day at harvard.
ThatGuy
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How small should I go
LARRY70GS
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Famous last words. It is very easy to destroy an L67 if you don't know what you are doing. If the engine detonates under boost and you have a few lean cylinders due to clogged injectors, the PCM will not be able to retard the ignition enough to save the engine with KR. I have seen this countless times. Power increases are possible, but you need to pay attention to supporting mods, and MONITOR for KR.
Last edited:
2007LucerneCXL
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G
G-537248
I have a 97 buick regal gs already supe up all mod have been done tuning has been done zzp kit has been added I mean it has a lot of power very fast car its for sell r willing to trade for a tahoe truck
wastedone
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Try getting a 2.8mm pulley for the supercharger the stock one is 3.8 dont go below 2.0mm. And use only premium gas or higher no racing gas though maybe a good octane booster.
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