Noisy hydraulic lifters in a 65 skylark 300ci

[spanishdom]

Hello there, I just replaced all 16 lifters due to intermittent noise coming from mainly the left hand side ( as you stand infront of the engine), and after the initial start up and lifters filling up, she quitened down nicely. after half an hour of noiseless driving, she suddenly started to make noise again, quite a lot. Again from the lhs.
Any ideas? do I have a blocked oil passage somewhere? the rods I havent changed bu they are all straight.
All thoughts / info very welcome as I am mistified.
Dominic.

 

[Mad_Coachman]

I hope you put them back in their respective holes. Many people label them as to which particular valve they correspond to. Also the rocker arms may not be tightened to spec.
I'm sure someone else will be along soon to share their thoughts on this. 😉

 

[2007LucerneCXL]

No information on the engine other than CI and lifter noise. Items that may be needed to check is the timing chain and gears, rocker assembly. Conditions of the used lifters and how was it determined that they needed to be replaced.

You may want to check this forum for additional information.

V8buick.com

V8Buick.com Message Board

www.v8buick.com

 

[MelsRegal]

Did you carefully examine the cam lobes for wear?
What was the condition of the bottom of the old lifters?

 

[spanishdom]

I hope you put them back in their respective holes. Many people label them as to which particular valve they correspond to. Also the rocker arms may not be tightened to spec.
I'm sure someone else will be along soon to share their thoughts on this. 😉

Thanks for your input. Yes all the rods went back into their corresponding holes, and the rocker arms are nice and tight

 

[spanishdom]

Thanks for your input. Yes all the rods went back into their corresponding holes, and the rocker arms are nice and tight.

 

[spanishdom]

No information on the engine other than CI and lifter noise. Items that may be needed to check is the timing chain and gears, rocker assembly. Conditions of the used lifters and how was it determined that they needed to be replaced.

You may want to check this forum for additional information.

V8buick.com

V8Buick.com Message Board

www.v8buick.com

Thanks...the engine has only done 48,000miles, and has correct power / compression. I figured they needed changing due to intermittent tappet noise, figured they were dirty / and or worn. No scoring on the used lifters

 

[spanishdom]

Did you carefully examine the cam lobes for wear?
What was the condition of the bottom of the old lifters?

I havent checked the cam lobes, old lifters looked fine, no scoring or wear on the bottom

 

[LARRY70GS]

A common cause of lifter noise in a Buick V8, especially on the driver's side is a worn front cam bearing. Oil flows across the front cam bearing to supply the driver's side lifter galley. Bearing material can obstruct or block the feed to that galley. TA Performance has back grooved cam bearings that fix the problem for good. They may not be available for the 300, so you may need to buy a stock set of bearings,

Stock Replacement Cam Bearings, 215-300-340 STOCK CAM BEARINGS, TA_1564 | TAPerformance.com

 

[spanishdom]

A common cause of lifter noise in a Buick V8, especially on the driver's side is a worn front cam bearing. Oil flows across the front cam bearing to supply the driver's side lifter galley. Bearing material can obstruct or block the feed to that galley. TA Performance has back grooved cam bearings that fix the problem for good. They may not be available for the 300, so you may need to buy a stock set of bearings,

Stock Replacement Cam Bearings, 215-300-340 STOCK CAM BEARINGS, TA_1564 | TAPerformance.com

View attachment 31638

View attachment 31637

Hi Larry, Thanks for your input. good to know this is a common casuse of tappet noise in Buick engines.The noisy side is the passenger side, at the rear of the rocker cover, so probably the last two rods and lifters - but the fact that the noise is coming from the same place as it was before I replaced the lifters,. tells me that it is not the lifters at fault. So... its likely to be worn cam bearings. I started the car this morning and it was as quiet as a mouse, and yesterdays drive after half an hour was smooth, but became really noisy. So it seems to be playing up when the oil is hot and thin, but surely this should make the oil circulate with more ease.... ? The noise is coming from the rear 2 lifters on the left hand side, so maybe its a worn rear cam bearing? I think Ill get a set as you suggest.

Thank you again - Dominic.

 

[LARRY70GS]

Dom, that does not sound like cam bearings to me. It sounds like an oil pressure problem. What you need to do is measure oil pressure. The Buick oil pump is in the timing chain cover. Internal clearances are very important to oil pressure, ESPECIALLY when hot. The timing chain cover is aluminum, and expands with heat. Oil thins out with heat, so it is normal for oil pressure to be high when cold, and then drop as the engine warms up. If clearances are out of spec, the pressure drop will be excessive. Get a good oil pressure gauge and measure the pressures.

Another cause can be a restricted oil pick up screen. Original timing gears (cam gear) had nylon capped teeth. The nylon teeth fall off and can clog the pick up. Again that can lower oil pressure.

If the back valves are noisy, I would look at the rocker arms/shafts for wear. The back lifters would be the last to get oil. Low oil pressure can cause noise.

This is a thread I authored on Buick oil pumps over on V8buick,

Oil Pump clearances and oil pressure

A lot FAQs here have to do with oil pressure. Buick engines, other than the Nailheads have a front mounted oil pump. The pump is actually housed...

www.v8buick.com

Normal oil pressure for the 1965 Buick 300 is 30 psi @ 2400 RPM.

You NEED to join there, V8buick is the best Bulletin Board for your car, hands down.

 

[LARRY70GS]

Gauges?

One of the most important additions you can make to your Buick is a quality set of aftermarket gauges. If your car came factory equipped with idiot...

www.v8buick.com

 

[spanishdom]

Dom, that does not sound like cam bearings to me. It sounds like an oil pressure problem. What you need to do is measure oil pressure. The Buick oil pump is in the timing chain cover. Internal clearances are very important to oil pressure, ESPECIALLY when hot. The timing chain cover is aluminum, and expands with heat. Oil thins out with heat, so it is normal for oil pressure to be high when cold, and then drop as the engine warms up. If clearances are out of spec, the pressure drop will be excessive. Get a good oil pressure gauge and measure the pressures.

Another cause can be a restricted oil pick up screen. Original timing gears (cam gear) had nylon capped teeth. The nylon teeth fall off and can clog the pick up. Again that can lower oil pressure.

If the back valves are noisy, I would look at the rocker arms/shafts for wear. The back lifters would be the last to get oil. Low oil pressure can cause noise.

This is a thread I authored on Buick oil pumps over on V8buick,

Oil Pump clearances and oil pressure

A lot FAQs here have to do with oil pressure. Buick engines, other than the Nailheads have a front mounted oil pump. The pump is actually housed...

www.v8buick.com

Normal oil pressure for the 1965 Buick 300 is 30 psi @ 2400 RPM.

You NEED to join there, V8buick is the best Bulletin Board for your car, hands down.

Makes sense Larry, I did have an oil pressure problem, and replaced the gears and gasket but did not check the clearance. The lack of pressure was due to the system not been primed which I did with a drill and drive on the shaft. But before that I tried packing the pump with vaseline. The pump top / cover is pretty scored from the gears, so this could account for too much clearance between the gears and the top plate?Methinks I should get a new oil pump cover and set of different thickness gaskets to set it up correctly. Ill check the oil pressure with my gauge and measure when cold and hot.... got the feeling that <im getting there🙂

 

[LARRY70GS]

If the pump pocket is worn excessively, you need a new timing chain cover. Depending on your budget, you might want to consider that.

Timing Chain Covers, 198-225-231-252-300-340-350 Timing Cover, TA_1530 | TAPerformance.com

You can set the whole thing up off the car, and then swap the covers.

 

[spanishdom]

If the pump pocket is worn excessively, you need a new timing chain cover. Depending on your budget, you might want to consider that.

Timing Chain Covers, 198-225-231-252-300-340-350 Timing Cover, TA_1530 | TAPerformance.com

You can set the whole thing up off the car, and then swap the covers.

Forgive my ignorance, but how does a worn pump top / pocket affect the timing chain cover?

 

[spanishdom]

Ok I think I got it - because the bottom of the pump cavity is undoubtedly also worn and forms part of the timing cover.!

 

[LARRY70GS]

The gears sink further into the pocket from wear at the bottom of the pocket. I linked that thread I authored to explain that,

Oil Pump clearances and oil pressure

A lot FAQs here have to do with oil pressure. Buick engines, other than the Nailheads have a front mounted oil pump. The pump is actually housed...

www.v8buick.com

Did you read it yet?

When you check clearances inside the pump, one of the critical things is end clearance. Have a look at the chassis manual,


Placing a straight edge across the gear faces, the gear faces should be ABOVE the gasket surface. If the gear pocket is worn, the gears will be sunk excessively. The gasket is what actually sets your end clearance. If the above measurement is .004" for instance, using a .006 gasket will give you the optimal .002" end clearance. Excessive end clearance will give you low oil pressure when hot.

 

[spanishdom]

The gears sink further into the pocket from wear at the bottom of the pocket. I linked that thread I authored to explain that,

Oil Pump clearances and oil pressure

A lot FAQs here have to do with oil pressure. Buick engines, other than the Nailheads have a front mounted oil pump. The pump is actually housed...

www.v8buick.com

Did you read it yet?

When you check clearances inside the pump, one of the critical things is end clearance. Have a look at the chassis manual,

View attachment 31639
Placing a straight edge across the gear faces, the gear faces should be ABOVE the gasket surface. If the gear pocket is worn, the gears will be sunk excessively. The gasket is what actually sets your end clearance. If the above measurement is .004" for instance, using a .006 gasket will give you the optimal .002" end clearance. Excessive end clearance will give you low oil pressure when hot.

Yes i read through it albeit a bit too quickly. The bottom of the pocket being the higher part, which is part of the timing cover, correct?
I figure that I should get the timing cover, pump cover, and new gears / oil pump kit. Now heres one for you - Im in Spain and know that the Rover v8 is the same block, so rather than ship and import from the USA, do you reckon the parts will be compatible from LAnd Rover?
Thanks so far for this invaluable help. I t does sound like oil pressure I really didnt want to pull the engine apart and change cam bearings, and the rest. Ill keep you
posted on progress🙂 She is a 3 speed manual

 

[LARRY70GS]

While the Rover engines are similar, I doubt very much whether the timing covers are compatible. That would be a question over on V8buick. You need to join there.

Looks like a very nice car.

 

[LARRY70GS]

I asked over on V8,

Rover front timing cover

Is it possible to adapt the Rover V8 timing cover to a 1965 Buick 300? I suspect no, but I am asking for a Buick Owner in Spain, on another Buick...

www.v8buick.com