1995 Park Avenue Issues - PLEASE HELP!!!

[LadySmith]

Update: Hubby talked to a mechanic at our local Buick dealer. He said the first and foremost problem that he would first correct and that it very well could be causing our problem is to change the fuel pump that we just bought (whatever brand Advance sells) to an AC Delco one.

I understand that it very well could be....and in time we might end up getting an AC Delco fuel pump for it, but I just feel that relying on that to solve this problem is a shot in the dark...the same as if we just blindly went and bought an ICM, or ECM/PCM, or whatever...in hopes of fixing it.

I'm going crazy here!🙁

 

[LadySmith]

Oh, and another update:

I went and got my son at school earlier and it didn't go dead any there or back (only about 3.5 miles from my house).

When I got back, I turned the car off for maybe 30 minutes. Then, I went and cranked it up and let it sit there idling for about 30 minutes or so while I sat in the car and watched to see if I saw any lights come on for maybe a split second or any of the gauges go wacky in the event it went dead (because you know when you're driving down the road, you may not necessarily notice it if it's just for a second or something and then goes dead). Well, the thing wouldn't go dead!

I turned it off and let it sit about an hour or so, then cranked it again. It sat and idled a while. I did various things, hoping if I could see ANYTHING that may trigger it. I rolled window down a little, then back up. I turned the radio on, changed stations, turned the air on, up, down, back off a while, back on, gave it a little gas every once in a while, etc...just various things that someone might do while they're driving. The thing still wouldn't go dead!!

I almost guarantee, though, if I even attempted to go 2 miles up the road, it would go dead.

Is there an icon for pulling hair out?! LOL

 

[LadySmith]

Quick question: Is 1995 Buick Park Avenue OBD 1, 1.5 or 2? I checked and it has 16 pins.

 

[LadySmith]

OK, I've been literally about to go crazy about this. I HAVE to have a car. So, trying to think and think what could the problem be when it's this intermittent...random. Is there any pattern?

The ONLY half-way of a pattern I can think of that I've noticed (and only noticed it since it's starting to get a little cooler out), when the temperature outside is hot, especially during the heat of the day, it will for sure be more likely to quit. The fuel pump quits working at this time. When it's cooler and/or night, maybe even with a little moisture in the air (dew, misting rain), you can let the thing run for 2 hours and it won't go dead. Any relevance?

Now I've heard of electronic things such as the ICM, crankshaft sensor, etc. getting too hot when they're weak...but I mean the engine temperature is staying around 200 and it won't go dead. The only thing I've noticed is it's more likely to quit when it's daytime and very hot outside. It has quit only one time while driving at night that I can think of, but that was on a night following a very high heat index day.

So, am I onto anything here or do I just need to quit overthinking this? LOL

 

[LadySmith]

Oh, and another thing I noticed just this evening (has not happened before that I have noticed and I have really been looking....lol):

Now when you turn the ignition on, but not cranking it...all the panel lights display but cut off after a couple of seconds, but now the Check Engine Light stays on, but when you actually crank it, it goes out.

Does that mean that it has finally set a code?

 

[LadySmith]

Well, today our "only seems to do this when it's hot...in the heat of the day" theory got shot down. Yesterday evening I ran the car for quite a while (maybe 2 hours or so) until hubby got home. Later, the car ran several more hours...until like midnight and never shut off once! Hubby was did use a test light on the gray wire down there and it stayed lit. The thing didn't go dead any, of course, for him to see if the test light went off. He listened and heard the fuel pump the whole time. He was trying to listen and see if it shut off right before the car died, but the car never died! Ugh!

Anyway, after all of that....this morning we went like 3 miles up the road to take our son to school. I sat in the car and bam! The car went dead in the parking lot. It was pretty cool (or at least a lot cooler than it's been being...62-65ish and a dewy morning). We got maybe 5 miles up the road and it shut off again. The fuel pump primed and she started. This is SOO aggravating!

The rest of the day after it went dead those couple of times, were stall-free. We've drove it and drove it and have let it idle and it didn't die anymore.

Yesterday, hubby talked to a mechanic at our local Buick/Chevy dealership and he told hubby the first thing is to get the piece of crap fuel pump from Advance off of there and get an AC Delco one on there. At least that will eliminate that problem and if it still does it, one less thing to consider and focus on diagnosing it another way.

Then, he talked to a very reputable (and very expensive) mechanic that has his own shop that's been working on cars as long as my husband has been alive or longer and again, he said....AC Delco pump first and foremost before you even consider checking anything else. He said the second thing he'd double check is the wiring harness going to the fuel pump. Hubby has checked various wiring, but he didn't take the tank off and look again at the connection to the fuel pump, but said he did look at it when he put it on.

Anyway, we went and bought an AC Delco fuel pump and strainer and hubby is putting it on right now. We'll drive it around after while to see if the car stalls.

As mentioned to me on another forum by HotZ28, I will definitely tell him if his test light is long enough to fix it where he can see it while driving.

What does this tell...that the computer IS telling the fuel pump to pump if that light stays on and therefore if it stalls then it's a bad fuel pump?

Thanks so much!!!! Hopefully we will get to the bottom of this soon.

 

[LadySmith]

I will definitely tell him if his test light is long enough to fix it where he can see it while driving.

On this statement...nevermind...hubby just told me about splicing a wire onto it and such. I'm a dummy. I was wondering how his test light was going to do this because it probably wasn't long enough....LOL

Actually, I think my brain is fried from thinking about this stupid car!!!!

 

[Cadillac_AL]

I'm kinda surprised the Buick dealership and the expensive mechanic are so reluctant to check for codes. I guess lazy slackers like me are always looking for the easy way out. If the Advanced Auto fuel pump was unfit for it's intended purpose, then they would be obligated to refund anybody's money on demand. I find it hard to believe they can be that unreliable. Good luck

 

[imidazol97]

Anyway, we went and bought an AC Delco fuel pump and strainer and hubby is putting it on right now. We'll drive it around after while to see if the car stalls.

I assume advanced auto will take back the pump you're taking out under warranty. They'be been pretty good here. They got even better after O'Reillys opened about 300 feet away.

In an earlier post you said that when it dies, you turn the key and it won't crank. Do you mean that the starter won't work at all? Or are you meaning that it won't start running and the starter cranks it?

 

[TDIXON]

95 is OBD1.5. did the new ful pump do the trick? Tell your husband to put some diaelectric grease on the connectors were the pump hooks up. this will help it from corrosion.

 

[LadySmith]

I'm kinda surprised the Buick dealership and the expensive mechanic are so reluctant to check for codes. I guess lazy slackers like me are always looking for the easy way out. If the Advanced Auto fuel pump was unfit for it's intended purpose, then they would be obligated to refund anybody's money on demand. I find it hard to believe they can be that unreliable. Good luck

Yeah, see, the Buick dealership mechanic just talked to my hubby as a favor because hubby's sister's fiance is a salesman there and asked him to if he got the time out of his busy schedule (they were really busy yesterday too). He did tell hubby that he could scan it (for no cost) if he wants after he puts an AC Delco fuel pump on...lol The other guy (the expensive mechanic), was so busy that he wouldn't have been able to get to my car today. He told hubby to change the fuel pump to a Delco and while he's at it to check that wiring. He said that if we're still having trouble with it, to call and set up an appt. to come in so he can try to scan it.

And yeah, about the Advance fuel pump....I guess it's just wait-and-see. I know with anything out there, including big brand names, there's gonna be a dud sometimes, maybe some kind of little part that got missed in QC and/or got a little messed up during shipping or whatever (my son's sony ps3 tore up after only 3 short months of owning it and had to be sent in to be repaired). I do know, though that there was a BIG difference in quality just by looking at and holding the two fuel pumps.

Actually, they wouldn't give him his money back I don't think because this one was a replacement on the warranty of the one that we had already got maybe 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. Actually, they had told me on the phone when I called to check that it was a lifetime warranty, but when I got down there I was told that it was only 1 year, but she went ahead and replaced it as a courtesy. So, really we weren't out that extra money for this new Delco one since we didn't have to pay for that one.

I assume advanced auto will take back the pump you're taking out under warranty. They'be been pretty good here. They got even better after O'Reillys opened about 300 feet away.

In an earlier post you said that when it dies, you turn the key and it won't crank. Do you mean that the starter won't work at all? Or are you meaning that it won't start running and the starter cranks it?

No, they won't take back the pump, I don't believe. She didn't have to replace it...just did it as a courtesy.

As for your question....when it dies, I can sometimes turn the key on and it will immediately crank (that is if the fuel pump kicked on/primed). Sometimes it takes a few times of turning the key on and off (without trying to crank it) for the fuel pump to kick on. If I try to crank it and it just so happens to be one of those times that fuel pump hadn't kicked in, it will not crank. It will turn over fine, only it won't crank because there's no fuel pressure (the fuel pump hadn't kicked on).

95 is OBD1.5. did the new ful pump do the trick? Tell your husband to put some diaelectric grease on the connectors were the pump hooks up. this will help it from corrosion.

Thanks for the OBD info...maybe we won't need it now, but it will come in handy in case we ever do.

See below:


Well, hubby got the fuel pump on and said that all the connections looked real good. The new fuel pump came with a new wiring harness thingy. He checked all of the existing wiring, cleaned them and put some kind of electrical connection protection/dielectric grease stuff he got at the auto parts place.

He said that before he removed the old (new...lol) fuel pump that he double checked the continuity of the wiring to it as well. He said he moved it all around and everything checking it the whole time and that it tested fine.

Who knows? Maybe it was just piece of crap fuel pumps causing this. I guess we'll see.

After he got finished and got the gas back in and everything, he let the car sit and idle. It never died after an hour or so.

Tonight we drove it everywhere...sometimes letting it run/idle (when I stayed in it), sometimes turning it off for awhile, etc...all various speeds. It never died..not even once. 😀

So, as for today, with all the driving and idling it's done, the last time it stalled was around 8 or so this morning. This is real progress, IMO since this had been progressively getting worse...dying every single time I attempted to go anywhere...no matter if it was only 3 miles up the road.

Hubby's gonna drive it to work the next few days to see if it stalls any with him. If it does, he's going to do the "test light" test, which we probably should have done before putting this newest fuel pump on it...lol

But we have confidence! Confidence!!! Keep your fingers crossed!

 

[Buffman]

was no obd-1.5 I'm aware of. Unless you're refering to the OBD1s with the OBD2 data connection.

 

[Cadillac_AL]

I guess the lesson learned here is that parts store fuel pumps are junk and a waste of time to install one. Now you can enjoy that nice car.

 

[imidazol97]

But we have confidence! Confidence!!! Keep your fingers crossed!

I hope this fixes it for you. If I understand the fuel pump on the car was a replacement for a previous pump. The current one was about 1 year old.

Odd. Some posts keep appearing with replacement parts that are not original brands failing after a fairly short time. Wheel bearings are one that comes to mind. And some fuel pumps. It's making me feel better about the Delco that the mechanic insisted on putting onto my car when I couldn't do it myself. Maybe it will be worth the extra cost.

 

[LadySmith]

Update:

Still not fixed

. BUT, what all he's done has made it somewhat better because this problem had gotten so progressively worse that it had gotten to the point that most of the time, you couldn't even get 3-5 miles up the road before it would die and it wouldn't crank right back up most of the time anymore.

After he put on the AC Delco fuel pump, he let it run for a long time and then we drove around everywhere and it never died. He drove it to work yesterday morning (approximately 20 miles or so) and since he was early, he let it idle in the parking lot. It went dead but then he was able to crank it right back up.

Then, yesterday afternoon all the way home and it didn't go dead any.

This morning he drove it to work again and it didn't go dead any.

He said that he may do that test light thingy and also put a fuel pressure gauge and tape it to the windshield because whatever is causing this is causing the fuel pump to quit pumping at the time it occurs because there will be no fuel pressure at the rail and you can turn the key on and off a few times and hear the fuel pump kick on (but with the new fuel pump, haven't had to do this because it's only died the one time and was able to be cranked right back up, so the fuel pressure/fuel pump prime wasn't checked at that point since it did crank right back up).

I guess since it has gotten better, that he did some good somewhere in the wiring connections, even though he said that everything looked good.

He's thinking about pulling the PCM into the passenger floorboard and giving it a tap and see if it makes it die.

At this point, could it still be the ICM or crank shaft position sensor, or is it pretty much the PCM or still a wiring issue?

It just seems to me that the problem has gotten MUCH better, but still there, so maybe some little wire somewhere that hubby didn't check on???

Hubby said he's tempted to just keep driving the car until it absolutely just quits and won't start back (because the progressively getting worse problem is bound to make it totally quit)...he said THEN maybe he can figure out the problem.

 

[LadySmith]

I guess the lesson learned here is that parts store fuel pumps are junk and a waste of time to install one. Now you can enjoy that nice car.

I didn't mean to "hit a nerve" with you or whatever...offend you or whatever. All I know is that more than likely, when we replaced the fuel pump 1 1/2 - 2 years ago, it probably replaced the original factory fuel pump that lasted that long (140K miles or so). Now the parts store fuel pump did fix the issue we were having at that time (1 1/2 - 2 years ago), but with the newest problem we've been having, hubby replaced the fuel pump again. Then, we were still having the same problem and after checking and checking on things that have been suggested here (along with what advice hubby's gotten from various people), we were still having the same problem. Then, that made us second guess the fuel pump that we had just put on it...wondering why in the world it would quit pumping. Then, when two reputable mechanics told him that about replacing the fuel pump with an AC Delco, we decided to (wasn't any extra money really since we didn't have to pay for the one we had just put on it). We thought at the very least, we pretty much could rule out the fuel pump (even though I KNOW there are duds sometimes with anything...brand name or not). There was a big difference in the quality (physical appearance and weight) of the two fuel pumps, so we really felt more at ease with ruling out if it's the fuel pump or not with the AC Delco (not to say that they can't be bad from the factory too).

Anyway, I apologize if it offended you...wasn't my intention at all.

I hope this fixes it for you. If I understand the fuel pump on the car was a replacement for a previous pump. The current one was about 1 year old.

Odd. Some posts keep appearing with replacement parts that are not original brands failing after a fairly short time. Wheel bearings are one that comes to mind. And some fuel pumps. It's making me feel better about the Delco that the mechanic insisted on putting onto my car when I couldn't do it myself. Maybe it will be worth the extra cost.

The fuel pump from a parts store was the replacement for a previous parts store pump from about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago.

Yeah, sometimes things fail (original brand or not). From what we've encountered, there are some mechanics out there that insists on factory parts going on the car. Not to say that some of those can't be duds as well, but hubby did feel that he can pretty much rule out the fuel pump (quit second guessing about the fuel pump) with an AC Delco one. We weren't out the extra money really because the girl at the parts store replaced the fuel pump even though she didn't have to because it was out of warranty, so we got it free. Then, the AC Delco one, we got at a great price like $142 or so including the strainer, which is around the same price we would have paid for a non-Delco from the parts store. Now, as for all of hubby's labor involved in all of this.....that's another story.

 

[Buffman]

Have you guys checked the fuel pump wiring harness?

 

[LadySmith]

Have you guys checked the fuel pump wiring harness?

Yes, and the new AC Delco one came with a new one, but hubby checked all the wiring to the car harness too.

 

[TDIXON]

Have you checked the fuel pump relay? Maybe its week causing it too kick out when it starts getting warm. Maybe replace it anyways its not very expensive.

 

[Buffman]

yeah if the wiring on the car is fine, I'd double check the FP relay.