Intermittent Starting

[UltraMartyr]

So, about 3 weeks ago on a torrential rainy day, I got off work and popped in my car, turn the key and...nothing. All electrical systems are go, but not even a click, doesn't even sound like it's trying to turn over. I try again, leaving the key in the on position for several seconds to ensure the fuel pump is working. Make sure the car is fully in park etc... Tried a total of maybe four times, and nothing, so I got my friend to jump it. And after just a minute or two, started right up.

I assumed the battery was the issue as it was a shotty 1 year battery and was probably ready to be replaced. The next day I went to autozone got a 3yr duralast.

Problem solved, right?

No issues whatsoever until the next time it rained.
This happened several more times during the next couple rainy days.

Yesterday (still raining), went to go pick up my brother turned the car off while I waited. He gets in the car and of course now it won't start.
Only this time, I waited for a while and tried again. And it starts! No problems.

So my question is, what would cause my park ave to intermittently start in wet conditions?

Also, I don't know if this would have anything to do with it, but my voltmeter has been acting up. Sometimes as low as 11V, sometimes as high as 16. When the turn signal is on, the voltmeter bounces a little bit.

Thanks,
Clayton

 

[UltraMartyr]

Update: Since the rain stopped, no more issues. However when I started my car today, the voltmeter read 17 volts, I am a bit concerned. Does this mean that I have short to ground somewhere?

Anyone know why my car doesn't want to start in the rain?

 

[dcraig1000]

does the battery light come on at anytime when it is raining? maybe the starter wiring is getting wet since its located under the engine. i would also check the battry and alternator wiring.

 

[Cadillac_AL]

The voltmeter reading is a problem if it is accurate. You should verify that with a multi meter at the battery. I don't know what your starting problem is but more than likely it is related to this charging issue somehow. If it is really putting out 17 volts then i would replace it since i don't know any good alternator rebuilders in my area.

 

[UltraMartyr]

does the battery light come on at anytime when it is raining? maybe the starter wiring is getting wet since its located under the engine. i would also check the battry and alternator wiring.

The battery light has never come on, the only CEL I have is p0401 EGR valve. That was my suspicion too, is there something or some sort of cover I can put over the terminals to help keep them dry?

The voltmeter reading is a problem if it is accurate. You should verify that with a multi meter at the battery. I don't know what your starting problem is but more than likely it is related to this charging issue somehow. If it is really putting out 17 volts then i would replace it since i don't know any good alternator rebuilders in my area.

I believe the voltmeter is accurate but I will verify with my multimeter. I know the battery is fine, I have yet to get the alternator tested but I'm sure it could use it.

Thanks!

 

[dcraig1000]

you can use some high temp rtv(red) to cover the terminals.

 

[UltraMartyr]

you can use some high temp rtv(red) to cover the terminals.

Good call! I'm gonna get some!

 

[pogster]

I don't really think water on the battery terminals is the problem. Many, including myself, regularly wash their engine bays and the vehicle will start right up with a wet, dripping battery.

The alternator sounds suspicious to me and that's where I'd start (no pun intended). Does it stay at 17 volts or only for a few moments before returning to around 13-14v while the car is running? Also, you shouldn't see much voltage change with the signal lights on if the regulator is working properly. Sounds like the voltage regulator is going/gone which is internal in the alternator. As suggested replace the alternator. If the problem continues start pulling wire connections and drying them out followed by dielectric grease before reassembly and go from there.

 

[dcraig1000]

rtv at the starter, not the battery, and yes, if that dont help then i would be doing a test of the alternator, simulating a wet enviroment while testing it.

 

[xmeter]

I noticed I also have the same issue of reading low voltage (11.5 give or take) when the car is not running. With the car running it is fine.
I checked the battery again just in case as it is new but I have full voltage at the battery.
I did a voltage drop test and everywhere that I access looks good.
Weird.

 

[pogster]

I noticed I also have the same issue of reading low voltage (11.5 give or take) when the car is not running. With the car running it is fine.
I checked the battery again just in case as it is new but I have full voltage at the battery.
I did a voltage drop test and everywhere that I access looks good.
Weird.

Hi xmeter. With the car not running your voltage at the battery sounds normal. Could you start your own thread to keep things simplified? Thanks.

 

[UltraMartyr]

I don't really think water on the battery terminals is the problem. Many, including myself, regularly wash their engine bays and the vehicle will start right up with a wet, dripping battery.

The alternator sounds suspicious to me and that's where I'd start (no pun intended). Does it stay at 17 volts or only for a few moments before returning to around 13-14v while the car is running? Also, you shouldn't see much voltage change with the signal lights on if the regulator is working properly. Sounds like the voltage regulator is going/gone which is internal in the alternator. As suggested replace the alternator. If the problem continues start pulling wire connections and drying them out followed by dielectric grease before reassembly and go from there.

Typically on the first startup of the day, the voltmeter may be as high as 16V or 17V. Depending on how much I drive that day, the voltmeter will progressively drop very slowly, for instance in 5 miles it may drop 1V. Lately it seems as though it doesn't want to go any lower than 14V.

Here's one that may throw you. When the voltmeter actually does read normal operating ranges (13-14V), my turn signals are sssslllllooooowwwww. I'd say two or three times as slow as they should be. However, when the voltmeter reads 16-17V, the turn signals speed up to the correct intervals. Why would that happen? All other electrical systems seem to work fine regardless of what the voltmeter reads.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[pogster]

Typically on the first startup of the day, the voltmeter may be as high as 16V or 17V. Depending on how much I drive that day, the voltmeter will progressively drop very slowly, for instance in 5 miles it may drop 1V. Lately it seems as though it doesn't want to go any lower than 14V.

Here's one that may throw you. When the voltmeter actually does read normal operating ranges (13-14V), my turn signals are sssslllllooooowwwww. I'd say two or three times as slow as they should be. However, when the voltmeter reads 16-17V, the turn signals speed up to the correct intervals. Why would that happen? All other electrical systems seem to work fine regardless of what the voltmeter reads.

Thanks for the replies!

Normally the voltage should drop within a couple of minutes when everything is working properly. As for the signal light thing that is strange.

 

[dcraig1000]

the voltage regulator might be on its way out.

 

[UltraMartyr]

the voltage regulator might be on its way out.

Yeah, that seems to be the next sensible move, tomorrow I will get my alternator tested, unfortunately I can't afford a new one right now. I might check out the options as far as getting it rebuilt.

If I end up just needing to get a new one, what brands do you recommend?

 

[dcraig1000]

always go o.e.m. http://www.oempartsgarage.com/ShopB...e Regulator&mode=PA&waitdisplay=True&rewrite=

 

[HotZ28]

I am surprised there has been no mention of inspecting/cleaning the battery terminals. The side post battery terminals are problematic and it is hard to see corrosion under the insulation, where several terminals are joined together. Corrosion can even travel down into the wires. If so, the wires will need to be cut enough expose fresh wire, then new terminal(s) installed. You need to remove the all the terminal insulation for a complete repair/cleaning of all parts. Better yet, get some gold plated battery studs & solder new terminals to clean wires to eliminate this problem completely. Been there, done that. BTW, the first indication of this high resistance problem, is erratic voltage & voltage drop/fluctuation when using turn signals. Pic below is what I did to my '96 PAU 4-5 years ago & not a problem since.

 

[UltraMartyr]

I am surprised there has been no mention of inspecting/cleaning the battery terminals. The side post battery terminals are problematic and it is hard to see corrosion under the insulation, where several terminals are joined together. Corrosion can even travel down into the wires. If so, the wires will need to be cut enough expose fresh wire, then new terminal(s) installed. You need to remove the all the terminal insulation for a complete repair/cleaning of all parts. Better yet, get some gold plated battery studs & solder new terminals to clean wires to eliminate this problem completely. Been there, done that. BTW, the first indication of this high resistance problem, is erratic voltage & voltage drop/fluctuation when using turn signals. Pic below is what I did to my '96 PAU 4-5 years ago & not a problem since.

That sounds like a great idea! The battery is brand new and when I installed it I made sure to use the dielectric grease, however I haven't done much with my cables. I'm thinking I might cut them down a bit and do what you said before buying a new alternator.

Thanks!

 

[Ultra Ego]

HotZ28 has a good point. Battery cables can corrode internally as well, increasing the resistance and lowering the available voltage to the starter.

Provided new cables don't do the trick, when I read your original post, I immediately thought of the starter. You didn't say how new it is. Low cranking voltage highlight worn brushes on the starter motor. Could be that the moisture on a rainy day prevents the brushes from having good contact with the starter armature.

We've all had our turn chasing electrical ghosts. Once you find it,you'll have a solid charging system.

 

[UltraMartyr]

HotZ28 has a good point. Battery cables can corrode internally as well, increasing the resistance and lowering the available voltage to the starter.

Provided new cables don't do the trick, when I read your original post, I immediately thought of the starter. You didn't say how new it is. Low cranking voltage highlight worn brushes on the starter motor. Could be that the moisture on a rainy day prevents the brushes from having good contact with the starter armature.

We've all had our turn chasing electrical ghosts. Once you find it,you'll have a solid charging system.

Yes, after cleaning the battery terminals and the cable ends at the battery, alternator and starter, and the battery to ground connection
no change. I verified with my multimeter the alternator and starter are all getting at least 12.4V which leads me to believe the cables are fine. Is that right?

The starter for all I know is stock. If the rainy day prevents the brushes from having a good contact with the armature, do I need to replace it?