Opti woes and replacement options

[buickwagon]

Background (if you are not interested in my tale of woe, skip down to the questions):

This fall, I noticed a slight intermittent miss that I tracked down to ignition. Ok, time for a tune-up, so I ordered plugs, wires, rotor and cap plus the Fel-pro timing cover set since there is evidence of some oil seepage from one of the seals. Note that I ordered these on-line since local bricks-and-mortar shops wanted ~$300 just for the cap!!!

In the meantime, some reading indicated that my symptoms may have been due to a plugged opti vent supply hose from the intake. (apparently the spark may do strange things under vacuum). Sure enough, the hose was plugged, and spongy with age and oil. So I installed new hoses and blew it out with a shot of compressed air. Maybe too much of a shot because the cap seal now leaks. Ooops. However, it did fix the problem -- the miss disappeared and it ran great.

By the time the parts arrived, winter struck. It has either been frigid (lows between -20 and -40° or blowing snow. So they are sitting there waiting for a mild day. However, this past week has brought a fresh problem: the car dies when it warms up. It will restart immediately so long as the key is not turned off, but the SES light comes on and the electric fan kicks in. The scan tool shows the PCM lost the high resolution signal from the opti. If the engine is shut down for a few minutes, it will restart normally, but soon after will die again, as before.

The problem:

I'm sure this is temperature related, the car will run for 20 minutes after a cold start in the morning and maybe 2 after parking for a few minutes. While I suppose it's possible the sensor just needs cleaning, I suspect it is failing. Apparently the original Mitsubishi sensor is no longer made, and was never sold separately by AC Delco anyway. There are at least two aftermarket sensors out there, one of which is reputedly junk, but they are only sold to manufacturers of aftermarket optis. Delphi has taken over making replacement optis for GM, and apparently they use one of these other sensors now. So the only possible way to get a new sensor is to buy a new opti.

The questions:

While Delphi is now the official GM branded supplier and priced accordingly, apparently they are not making the optis themselves. Their website seems to confirm they are buying them from a third-party manufacturer and putting them in a Delphi box. I've seen a few reports of Delphi optis failing in fairly short order.

A fellow named Chandler has a lot of posts on various other forums about his product. He claims his sensor is the one used by Delphi, that his version opti corrects some (unspecified) flaws in the original design, and is actually made by the same supplier that makes the MSD version. His is attractively priced at $140 with a lifetime warranty. He promotes his eBay feedback as evidence of quality, but really, how many miles can you put on a car within the limited time available to post feedback on eBay? Google shows mixed reviews, but no really recent stuff: 3 or 4 year old posts. Does anyone have any recent experience with an opti from chandlermotorsports.com?

 

[paart]

I assume that your thoughts about replacing the bearing in your OPTI have not worked out.

I noticed the Chandler site a few years ago, and have always parked that “in the back of my mind", “just in case”. You might look through Corvette Forums to see it there are valid opinions concerning the product.

Will he sell you just the sensor? Although, it might not fit if the MSD body casting is different. In looking through various forums over the years, I have the impression that MSD distributors don’t approach the quality of the original GM OPTI.

FWIW, I remember reading, somewhere (and it’s been years, so it’s hazy) that Chrysler used the same optical pickup as the OPTI in some of its products, in perhaps the early-mid ‘90’s. Off the top, this seems counter-intuitive, as I wasn’t aware that other manufacturers used a double row disc for timing signals. But, I’ve seen “stranger” scenarios.

I’m guessing you have checked/cleaned the sensor connector? In the temperatures that you experience, I know that plastic housings, connectors, etc. become brittle and can fail due to cracks.

There was a poster, about 3-4 months ago that was having a serious "drivablity" or "miss" issue that we both addressed. As I recall, (without searching old posts, right now) he purchased a Delphi OPTI, and his father (I think) was a Delco engineer that worked on the OPTI design. It could be worthwhile searching this and sending a PM to get an opinion.

 

[danadalaw1978]

Personally, I don't know all of the ins and outs of the opti, this being my first lt1, but if it can be confirmed that this is the same as the msd product, I'd have to give it a shot. This is for the whole opti, right? Not just the cap and rotor, or a sensor? I was planning on getting a new msd opti when summer rolls around, so if this is legit, I'd like to know, since an msd opti runs around $300-500. I'm all about saving money, as long as the product isn't inferior.
Adam

 

[buickwagon]

I have not yet removed the opti. As I said, the weather has not been suitable and the garage is rather cramped. So I have not checked the connectors, etc. for damage and I have not personally confirmed that the 6903-2RS bearing is correct. At this point, I'm thinking I am best to just buy another opti and then see what can be done with the original after the fact.

I have also come across the reference that a Chrysler had a similar Mitsubishi sensor, but no information about which Chrysler or even if it was an identical sensor or just a similar design.

As for buying a sensor alone from this Chandler, having read several of his own posts on various forums, I'm pretty positive that he does not make anything or have any surplus parts. Reading between the lines suggests he has simply sourced and is reselling something made off-shore. He may have had some input into some sort of "improvements" (probably nothing more than some silicone around the cap seal or similar). If he had sensors alone to sell, I think he'd have them listed -- he has a huge selection of other sensors for sale. Of course, for the price, it might be worth buying the whole thing just to get the sensor.

Now that you mention the other thread I remember it...

Ok, just looked it up. He bought the $300 Delphi and his dad checked it out prior to installation:

We took it apart so I could Loctite the rotor screws and put a little bit of anti-seize on the cap bolts. He looked for a couple of things on it. He said its a definately a Delco-Remy part. Casting numbers for the base and part # on the optical wheel are the same. Mitsubushi optical sensor. He was impressed considering it was made in mexico. Only thing he wasnt impressed with was the casting had a little more flash on it than he cares for but it wasnt in any critical/machined areas.

Which suggests that claims of Delphi sourcing their sensors from the same place as Chandler's supplier are, ummm, mistaken.

So, aftermarket sensor + lifetime warranty (if they are still around to honour it) @ 1/2 the price vs OEM sensor + 1 year warranty.

 

[paart]

Delphi CZ20003 is shown on Amazon @ $254.06 with free shipping. I'm unsure about Canada. It carries the notation "Actual OE Part". I think I paid nearly half that amount for a Delphi cap and rotor, perhaps 6-7 years ago.

Since the procedure to replace the OPTI is somewhat labor intensive, and a little tricky with the seal, I think I know what I would do. In a part of this type, I'd think that a failure due to a manufacturing defect would surface rather quickly.

 

[paart]

New OPTIs are on Ebay for as low as $50-free shipping! Oh Boy!

 

[buickwagon]

Yeah, I looked at one of those. The photos were clearly of a vented opti with the triple-lobed drive mechanism. The description said it fit a 92-94 Vette/Firebird/etc. If they can't even get the ad right...

 

[Roady Felcher]

I bought a 109.00 Opti off of ebay when my original opti needing replacing on my 96 RMS at about 110,000 miles. My mechanic had warned me to go with the AC/Delco Opti that was $300+. Instead I went with the low buck Opti and it lasted all of 11,000 miles and about 8 months. I was on a vacation and about 1500 miles from home when the cheapo Opti gave up the ghost on me in the middle of rush hour on an expressway in a major city. I had to have a local Pep Boys store replace it, and it too was a cheapo Opti which now has 2.5 years+ and 40,000 miles on it. My fingers are crossed that I can go another 60K miles and 3+ years at least. Best advise don't cheap out on the Opti because the failure rate is really quite high as I understand it and I was warned.

Roady Felcher
96 Black Road Bastard 2nd owner
95 White Road Bastard 2nd owner w/Tow package, Posi.

 

[SmackMule]

While on the topic of OptiSparks, is it advisable to watch for a deal on an AC/Delco Opti and purchase even if I don't need one now? Is the Opti something that will most likely need to be replaced, or might it last the life of the car?

 

[Buffman]

The cap and rotor should be replaced on them every 100K. ^^

Don't trust Ebay options, unless they guarantee the opti is OE genuine. Stay away from Accel Opti as well. Delphi or Delco are the only sources I trust for complete replacement. Someone on ISSF I believe has posted the optical sensor #. It's a Mitsu part.

I think anyone who has ever tried to replace bearing on opti, goes nowhere.

 

[buickwagon]

I decided to pull the trigger on the Delphi from RockAuto. The rest of the Chandler (or any other brand) opti may be just as good or better, but the sensor is the heart of the beast and everything I have read anywhere suggests no aftermarket sensor stands up to the longevity of the Mitsubishi OEM one. Since it has been recently confirmed that the Delphi still uses the good sensor, I'll pay the extra just for that peace of mind. And keep my cap and rotor for another 100k. Who knows if they'll be available then?

Changing the bearing would require a jig. I have a small home-machine shop and am confident I can reverse-engineer such a jig. I may do it just for fun once I have the old opti as a sample to play with. I would not recommend it for anyone who does not have those skills and resources.

 

[200OZ]

Chandlermotorsports.... Yup, I bought an opti from them on ebay for $100 or so in 2007. It lasted 2500 miles, I put it in in May, it died in Aug. Chandler sent me a new one a week later, I put that on, and it lasted about 10,000 miles, and it died the following October. Same code for both # 16, low resolution some thing or other, meaning bad optical sensor. I bought a Delphi unit from thepartslady in '08, 35,000 miles later, so far so good. Not a part you want to cheap out on.

I gave Chandlermotorsports good feed back. The part came quickly, I put it on, and the car ran most of the summer just fine. You can't give / take / edit feedback givin' on ebay, so feedback is not always trust worthy.

Mike

 

[buickwagon]

thepartslady apparently disappeared, leaving a lot of unfilled orders and unpaid bills. Something about a marriage breakup, I understand. He owned the warehouse that drop shipped the parts, she owned the eBay listing. He says she didn't pay her bills, she said he was just trying to take over her business.

Tracking says my RockAuto Delphi will arrive Monday. I'll open it up and check the sensor manufacturer when it gets here.

 

[turbostar]

Guys,this opti situation is confusing to say the least. I hear the rec that Delphi and ac delco are the best but when I look on amazon I see the Delphi unit for $295 and the rebuilt ac delco unit for $507. Are these equivalent ? If so why would someone buy the ac? I want to buy a unit to have in the future. Is there concensus that the Delphi cz20003 is the quality unit with the right internals? Thanks

 

[paart]

Ummmm. The Delphi just went up $50. Perhaps the Delphi people are reading this forum!
When "buickwagon's" unit comes in, it might be also worth a quick look to see if the casting and shaft look the same as the original. If so, then someone is still making the bearing, and probably the sensor is still being produced. But of course, if they are, it looks like they are ummmm...proprietary!

 

[buickwagon]

Rebuilds may reuse the sensor, to the best of my knowledge. They may be fine, but the sensor is the heart of the opti so I personally would prefer new. Especially at that price!

In 1994 GM reorganized some of their child entities. Delco-Remy was sold off, but GM retained the AC-Delco name for marketing purposes. At the same time GM created Automotive Components Group to design/produce auto electronics. ACG was later renamed Delphi and spun off in 1999, but GM continued to market their products under the AC-Delco banner. So there's a 99% chance that the AC-Delco opti-spark was actually made for them by ACG/Delphi.

According to this post from August 2013 wcamaddox tells us his father (formerly an engineer at Delco-Remy) examined his new Delphi-branded opti (from Rock Auto) and declared it to be of good quality with a genuine Mitsubishi sensor, the same part number stampings on the castings as the original, etc.

This contradicts the claim by one aftermarket opti supplier, who claimed that Delphi are now using the same no-name sensor as he supplied in his product.

As I said one post above, I ordered a Delphi from Rock Auto and will open it up to see for myself when it arrives early this coming week.

 

[turbostar]

Buickwagon,for you to open up and inspect your new unit when it arrives,will be a great service to the group and me in particular. I look forward to your post.

 

[buickwagon]

Ummmm. The Delphi just went up $50. Perhaps the Delphi people are reading this forum!
When "buickwagon's" unit comes in, it might be also worth a quick look to see if the casting and shaft look the same as the original. If so, then someone is still making the bearing, and probably the sensor is still being produced. But of course, if they are, it looks like they are ummmm...proprietary!

Still $283 @ R.A.

I read somewhere that Mitsubishi has a ridiculous minimum order -- several thousands. I don't know if that's true or an excuse to use a 3rd party sensor. It is entirely possible that GM/Delco/Delphi have an exclusive rights clause in their contract.

 

[danadalaw1978]

Okay, well, I was going to go with the MSD opti when I do my major overhaul this summer, but after reading all of this, I'm glad I didn't already get one. I just can't believe that the OE part is better than a "high performance" MSD part. I don't know how much money and time I would have wasted without this site. Thank you all for your very important info! With your help, my roady will be master of these streets for years to come!
By the way, are there any other major parts like this that I need to look out for?

Adam

 

[danadalaw1978]

Hey, forgot to ask, what about just a cap and rotor, and plugs and wires? What do you guys go with?
Thanks, Adam