Panne éléctrique introuvable sur Riviéra Boat-tail de 1973 ?

[Locarillo]

Bonsoir à vous, je rencontre une panne, un problème avec ma Buick de 73 que je n'arrive pas à rencontrer, si un de vous a rencontrer similaire, merci. 1 ) elle a commencé à tomber en panne en roulant = coupure totale, puis en insistant rouge ? de plus en plus réfrigérateur. Je monte un allumage électronique elle démarre et tourne bien ! je sors et 20/30 mn après panne total coupure ? Impossible de retrouver ! démarreur qui tourné trop lentement, je le change et arrive à la ramener chez moi. Quand j'arrive moteur fumant une cause d'huile sur le moteur .. En suite plus fonctionner, j'achète tout l'allumage neuf, bobine, allumage électronique haut de gamme, té distributrice + doigt neuf ! bougie neuves, démarreur Performance 2 KW, pompe à essence neuve, batterie 100 Ampère neuve, fils de bougies NGK.Tout été ancien voir d'origine au mois c'est fait ! sauf le Carbu rochester d'origine. Mais tout monté = rien, moi pas elle pète un peu ? J'ai passé 1 semaine tout les jours dessus a chercher et tester et changé le moidre fils suspect et tout ressaisir : masse ect... Aujourd'hui encore des essais mais Rien, l'essence arrive aux bougies en versant direction de l'essence dans le carbu mais rien, star pilote : rien sauf incendie carbu qui récupère l'essence ? Test étinc elle bougie elle est jaune pas bleu ? nombreux calage de l'allumeur PMH N°1 avec doigt dessus OK, Bref, la Merde complète, triste complète car je l'adore et elle tounée com une horloge ! Mais elle a maintenant 52 Ans ! alors est-ce que c'est l'age ou il faut changer tout les faisceaux électriques ? je sais plus ou cherchais ? j'ai tout essayer pour qu'elle me parle et hurle mais rien ! j'ai moi changer le fil tension d'origine qui va au newman pour l'allumage électronique ... Un grand Merci si un Technicien BUICK rivière 1973 me dit ou cherché ou donne la raison de cette panne de M...

 

[Locarillo]

Détails a savoir pour les connaisseurs : je la sort chaque semaine et roule Bien fort avec depuis 5 ans sans problème ! moteurs 455 en fonte chauffe pas mal ! est-ce quye ma facon de la conduire ne brule pas les fils plus rapidement ? ou bien les relais , les anciens relais ? je pense plus que ce soit un relais de démarrage ou autre qui a cramé et qui me fait perdre la tension a la bobine neuve NGK . Aprés des tests , bobine 11 V avec clés newman enclenché , puis ca baisse jusqu'a 6 V en démarrant , 6 V c'est sur quelle démarrera pas .

 

[LARRY70GS]

Translation,

Good evening to you, I have a breakdown, a problem with my Buick of 73 that I cannot find, if one of you has encountered similar, thank you. 1) it started to break down while driving = total cut-off, then insisting red? more and more refrigerator. I install an electronic ignition it starts and runs well! I go out and 20/30 minutes later total breakdown cut-off? Impossible to find! starter which turned too slowly, I change it and manage to bring it home. When I arrive engine smoking because of oil on the engine.. Then no longer works, I buy all the new ignition, coil, high-end electronic ignition, distributor tee + new finger! new spark plug, Performance 2 KW starter, new fuel pump, new 100 Ampere battery, NGK spark plug wires. Everything was old or original at least it's done! except the original Rochester Carb. But everything installed = nothing, not me it pops a little? I spent 1 week every day on it searching and testing and changing the slightest suspect wire and re-entering everything: ground etc... Today again tests but Nothing, the fuel reaches the spark plugs by pouring direction of the fuel in the carburetor but nothing, star pilot: nothing except fire carburetor which recovers the fuel? Spark test it spark plug is yellow not blue? numerous timing of the distributor TDC N°1 with finger on it OK, In short, complete shit, completely sad because I love it and it runs like a clock! But it is now 52 years old! so is it the age where it is necessary to change all the electrical harnesses? I don't know where to look anymore? I tried everything to make it talk to me and scream but nothing! I changed the original voltage wire which goes to the newman for the electronic ignition... A big Thank you if a BUICK Rivière 1973 Technician tells me where to look or gives the reason for this failure of M...
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Details to know for connoisseurs: I take it out every week and have been riding it hard for 5 years without any problems! 455 cast iron engines heat up quite a bit! Isn't the way I drive it burning the wires more quickly? Or the relays, the old relays? I think it's more a starter relay or something else that has burned out and is causing me to lose voltage to the new NGK coil. After testing, 11V coil with Newman keys engaged, then it drops to 6V when starting, 6V is sure it won't start.

 

[LARRY70GS]

This is how the stock points system works. Extending from the firewall engine harness connector(below the brake booster), is a calibrated length of special resistance wire. This wire does not extend all the way to the positive side of the coil. In the harness, it is joined by a wire leading from the "R" terminal of the starter solenoid, and from there, it extends to the positive side of the coil. There is a shorting switch inside the starter solenoid. When the starter motor is cranking the engine to start, the shorting switch inside the solenoid, sends battery voltage through the yellow wire to the coil positive, effectively bypassing the resistance wire. Once the engine starts, and the key is released to the run position, the yellow wire ceases to supply voltage, and voltage flows from the firewall via the resistance wire. This drops the running voltage so that point life is maximized.

To test the system for proper functioning requires a volt meter. Connect the voltmeter between the positive side of the coil and ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. The reading should be 5.0-5.5 volts. It is important that the ignition points be closed for this test. If the points are open, the voltmeter reading will be full battery voltage. Bump the engine over until the points are closed, and check again. Again, 5.0-5.5 volts is the normal reading with the engine stopped, ignition key in the run position, and the voltmeter connected between the positive side of the coil and ground. The second part of the functionality test requires that you pull the coil wire out of the distributor, and ground it so the engine will not start. With voltmeter connected as before, crank the engine continuously, and observe the voltmeter. The reading should jump from the previous 5-5.5 volt reading up to 9 volts minimum. If it does not, it indicates a problem with the shorting switch inside the starter solenoid, or a wiring problem between the "R" terminal of the solenoid, and the coil. This will result in hard starting when cold.


If you converted the ignition to electronic, it may require full battery voltage. Eliminate the resistance wire and replace it with 12 gauge wire.

If you are installing a points conversion, it is important to READ the instructions and determine if the system requires full battery voltage, or if it needs resistance on the primary side of the ignition. If it requires resistance, you can leave the stock resistance wire in place, or add a ballast resistor if the stock resistance wire has been replaced sometime in the past by you or a previous owner. In any case, if you cannot use the stock wiring including the resistance wire, you either have to run another wire that carries ignition on battery voltage, or you need to remove and replace the resistance wire including the wire from the starter solenoid. The right way IMHO, is to remove and replace the wiring. The easiest way to do this is to open the wrapping on the engine wiring harness. Then remove the bolt in the center of the engine harness connector at the firewall, and unplug the front half of the connector. The wires push in from the front with a metal "barb type" of connection. The barb can be compressed with thin nose pliers, and the wire will pull out from the front. Then you simply unsolder the the barb connection and attach it to a length of 14 gauge wire, and snap it back in to the firewall connector, and plug the connector back onto the firewall, tightening the bolt. Run the wire along the harness, crimp on the proper connection, and attach it to the positive side of the coil. Most if not all Pertronix, need full time battery voltage. GM large cap HEI distributors need full time battery voltage.

Below is a picture and link for the barb type terminal that clips into the front half of the the engine harness connection at the firewall.

https://www.amazon.com/Packard-16-1...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=92WM5X14KNTD61WB0EXZ

 

[LARRY70GS]

Power Timing your Buick V8

I thought I would try and compose this post to answer timing questions I see all the time on this BB. I see alot of questions about what initial...

www.v8buick.com

 

[Locarillo]

Hello Larry ,
Merci pour votre retour , hier j'ai changé le fil tension qui était dénudé a 1 endroit + raccordé avec un fil normal dans le faisceau par ancien propriétaire .. Fil complétement changé elle ne démarre toujourts pas ? Lors des essais démarrage avant changement le fil tension chauffé , méme fumé grave .Par contre le fil borne R sur ancien démarreur je ne peu pas le branché puisque le nouveau Performance n'a pas cette borne . Ils conseille de posé un relais dans ces cas la ! pouvez vous me dire vraiment quoi faire et ou je dois cherché encore la panne , elle ne Péte méme pas , ne parle pas ?
Merci d'avance .

 

[Locarillo]

Le problème reste le méme malgré avoir remonté l'ancien allumage vis patinée ?

 

[LARRY70GS]

Translation,

Thank you for your feedback, yesterday I changed the voltage wire which was stripped in 1 place + connected with a normal wire in the harness by previous owner. Completely changed wire, it still doesn't start? During start-up tests before changing the heated voltage wire, even serious smoke.On the other hand, the R terminal wire on the old starter I cannot connect it since the new Performance does not have this terminal. They advise installing a relay in these cases! can you tell me the truth.

The problem remains the same despite having reassembled the old ignition screw slipped?

 

[LARRY70GS]

The engine needs 3 things to start, Air, Fuel, and Spark. Find out what you are missing. The R terminal is only necessary with points ignition, it bypasses the resistance wire. Electronic ignition distributors don't need that. Make sure you have battery voltage at the positive terminal of the ignition coil, with the ignition key in Run, and
Crank positions. Check for spark at the coil wire and/or a spark plug wire.

Make sure you have fuel in the carburetor.

 

[MelsRegal]

What distributor do you have and explain the electrical connections.

 

[Locarillo]

Bonsoir ,
Distributeur d'origine , allumage changé pour éléctronique WELLS
Depuis aujourd'huit je pense plutot a un problème interne Moteur , j'ai achetais l'appareille pour relevé la compression des cylindres ; de 75 a 80 b de pression : moteur froid non tournant puisque en panne , est -ce un signe de défailance ? j'ai l'étincelle jaune ! l'essence filtre changé aujourd'huit , l'essence arrive au bougies , méme en l'envoyant direct sur le carbu , elle parle absolument pas ? aucune explosion ? le distributeur a été démonté pour changement allumage . Ou l'allumage bougie ne se fait vraiment quand il le faut ? ou aucune compréssion des cylindres pour l'explosion . Je suis conscient et sais ce qu'il faut a un moteur pour explosé mais le réglage Perfect de tout ca , je découvre ? Merci de m'indiqué afin que je refasse : la pose du distributeur comme c'était et étre sur que l'explosion se fait au Bon moment surtout , pluys l'essence a l'arrivé au carbu : faut t'il purgé le système lorsqu'on démonte au niveau du filtre pour le chnagé ? peut étre prise d'air ? a ce momenty la le courant + essence sera bonne a explosé ! sinon problème interne du moteur , compréssion trop faible ou ? Lorsque je tourne la clés pour envoyé le courant avec mùetrix = est de 11 volts au + de la bobine , 12/13 volts au négatif bobine . Mon sentiment , connaissant ma BUICK , la panne est arrivé petit a petit ! au début BUG du ralenti , elle tenait plus son ralenti alors pourquoi ? aprés ca a été coupure compléte en roulant de pluys en plus fréquement mais reparté plus ou moins rapidement .. Je pensais a l'allumage ! mais maintenant gros doute ! Lev carbu peut étre a refaire complétement vu son Age ! l'allumage c'est fait ( juste encore a faire bon réglage pour pose distributeur ! ) aprés : moteur HS ? comment je peu le savoir ? dans mon coin des mécanos spécial BUICK il y en a pas .Faut que trouve et je vais trouvé ce BUG ! parce qu'elle fonctionnée bien et j'ai simplement voulu posé un allumage plus récent , quelque chose a peut étre Cramé ? puisque elle a démarrer trés bien et puis panne 6 Km aprés et depuis ? galère Total
Dernière question , béte mais je pose : est ce que je ne peu pas justement démarrer le moteur , seulement en enlevant tout ce qu'il y a autour , Cabine , phare , Alternateur , ect .. tout pour vérifier si elle démarre ou pas et aprés remettre petit a petit par élimination de tout ce qu'il y a autour ! comme en éléctricité lorsque l'on recherche une Panne ,

 

[LARRY70GS]

Original distributor, ignition changed to WELLS electronic
Since today, I'm thinking more about an internal problem. Engine, I bought the device to check the cylinder compression; from 75 to 80 bar of pressure: cold engine not running since it's broken down, is this a sign of failure? I have the yellow spark! the fuel filter changed today, the fuel reaches the spark plugs, even when sending it directly to the carb, it doesn't start at all? no explosion? the distributor was disassembled for ignition change. Or the spark plug ignition doesn't really happen when it should? or no compression of the cylinders for the explosion. I am aware and know what a motor needs to explode, but the perfect adjustment of all that, I am discovering? Thank you for letting me know so that I can redo: the installation of the distributor as it was and making sure the explosion happens at the right time especially, plus the fuel arriving at the carb: do we need to purge the system when we disassemble at the filter level to change it? maybe air intake? at that moment the current + gasoline will be good to explode! otherwise internal engine problem, too low compression or? When I turn the key to send the current with the multimeter = it is 11 volts at the + of the coil, 12/13 volts at the - of the coil. My feeling, knowing my BUICK, the breakdown happened little by little! At first, there was an idle bug, it wouldn't hold its idle anymore, so why? after that it was complete cut-offs while driving more and more frequently but it would start again more or less quickly.. I thot about the ignition! but now I have serious doubts! The carburetors may need to be completely redone given their age! the ignition is done (just still need to make a good adjustment for the distributor installation!) after: engine HS? how can I know? in my area, there are no mechanics specializing in BUICK. I have to find it and I will find this BUG! because it was working fine and I simply wanted to install a more recent ignition, something might have burned out? since it started very well and then broke down 6 km later and since then? hassle Total
Last question, silly but I'll ask: can't I just start the engine by removing everything around it, Cabin, headlight, alternator, etc... everything to check if it starts or not and then gradually put it back piece by piece by eliminating everything around it! like in electricity when looking for a breakdown,
2,478 / 5,000

OK, from what I see, the distributor may have been installed wrong. The spark must be timed on the compression stroke. Simply lining up the mark on the vibration damper with the timing tab does not guaranty that. The engine crankshaft turns 2 revolutions to fire and exhaust all 8 cylinders. The vibration damper mark lines up with the timing tab TWICE, once for compression, once for exhaust. If you install the distributor on the exhaust stroke, the engine will not fire.

Take the distributor out. Remove the #1 spark plug. Put your thumb over the spark plug hole. Have some one bump the starter a little at a time until compression pushes your thumb out of the hole. When that happens, continue turning the engine until the mark lines up with the timing tab. Then install the distributor with the rotor pointing to the #1 spark plug tower on the distributor cap. The engine should now fire.

 

[Locarillo]

Merci pour votre retour !
Je vais faire com indiqué avec les 2 tours, ect...
Et je vous Tiens informé si ça explose Enfin !
Ou pas ?
Merci

 

[Locarillo]

Bonsoir , je viens de finir de calé le distributeur com il ce doit etre fait ! c'est sur .
Ben , elle péte toujours pas un peu , rien ...
Par contre j'ai vu, trouvé ! en tirant la jauge d'huile moteur que le niveau été beaucoup au dessus du Maxi ! alors qu'il n'y était pas du tout + l'huile trés claire et peu épaisse ?
Lorsque je l'ai ramené de la panne sur une route en roulant et qu'elle a bien voulu démarrer , en arivzant chez moi le moteur fumé , j'ai ouvert le capot et de l'huile avait coulé sur le moteur donc c'est ca qui fumé mais c'etait au niveau de la jauge de la boite , jusqu'en bas au démarreur . Aprés gros nettoyage , aucune fissure moteur ? ou elle est sortie de la jauge boite ? ou cache culbuteur peut étre puisqu au dessus pas de trace d'huile . En trouvant cette huile moteur trés trés claire et liquide comme l'eau que quelque chose dans le moteur a pété , plus de compréssion puisque 75/80 b Maxi si pas normal mais ca ? donc le moteur sans compréssion ne fait pas d'explosion .
Voius en pensez quoi de ma conclusion ..

 

[LARRY70GS]

Good evening, I just finished adjusting the distributor, as it should have been done! That's for sure.
Well, it's still not blowing a bit, nothing...
However, I saw, found! By pulling the engine oil dipstick, that the level was much above the Max! When it wasn't there at all + the oil was very clear and not very thick?
When I brought it back from the breakdown on a road while driving and it started, when I arrived home with the engine smoking, I opened the hood and oil had leaked onto the engine, so that's what was smoking, but it was at the gearbox dipstick, all the way down to the starter. After a thorough cleaning, no engine cracks? Or did it come out of the gearbox dipstick? Or maybe the rocker cover since there was no trace of oil above it. Finding this engine oil very, very clear and liquid like water, something in the engine has blown up, more compression since 75/80 b Max if not normal but that? So the engine without compression does not make an explosion.
What do you think of my conclusion?




Does the oil smell like fuel? You may have a ruptured fuel pump diaphragm leaking fuel into the crank case.
What do the spark plugs look like? Are they fouled?

 

[Locarillo]

Je n'ai pas trop senti le carburant dans l'huile mais il n'y a que l'essence qui peut diluer l'huile et étre marron trés clair , aucune trace d'eau ou liquide de refroidissement , j'ai recus la pompe neuve et compte la montée ! les bougies actuelle sont neuves , monté avec tout l'allumage ,les anciennes été marrons foncé , pas vraiment propre . Par contre nouveau essais et recherche aujourd'huit et c'est nouveau ! Bougie démonté et contre bloc moteur = cylindre 1 étincelle faible et jaune , le 2 a paine une étincelle ? le 3 rien ??? avec ca 8 Explosion Impossible . Alors vérification compréssion cylindre et en moyenne 125 b , ouf ! le 455 doit avoir entre 100/160 b et moins de 10% d'écart entre eux , c'est OK. Par contre c'est l'allumage a coup sur qui n'alimente pas assez et pas tout les cylindres ! Donc démontage téte allumeur et vérification du Jeu entre l'aimant et bobine ? des rondelles sont fournis mais aucune explications et ont dit en moyenne 00,25 / 00,50 , est Bon ?? la bobine faut il la changer obligatoirement pour une puissante dans mon Cas ?? Si je régle l'étincelle pour une couleur Bleu et Franche et tous sont bien alimentés ! Je Parie quel explose comme une Horloge !

 

[LARRY70GS]

Translation,

I didn't smell the fuel in the oil too much but only gasoline can dilute the oil and be very light brown, no trace of water or coolant, I received the new pump and count the rise! The current spark plugs are new, fitted with all the ignition, the old ones were dark brown, not really clean. On the other hand, new tests and research today and it's new! Spark plug removed and against engine block = cylinder 1 weak and yellow spark, the 2nd has a spark? the 3rd nothing??? with that 8 Explosion Impossible. So check cylinder compression and on average 125 b, phew! The 455 must have between 100/160 b and less than 10% difference between them, it's OK. On the other hand, it's the ignition for sure which does not supply enough and not all the cylinders! So disassembly of the distributor head and checking the clearance between the magnet and the coil? Washers are provided but no explanations and they said on average 00.25 / 00.50, is it good?? the coil must it be changed for a powerful one in my case?? If I adjust the spark for a Blue and Clear color and all are well supplied! I bet it explodes like a clock!



If the spark plugs are wet with fuel, they will not want to fire. What electronic ignition are you using? Compression tests will be invalid because the engine is cold. It needs to be at least warm so that all parts are up to the proper expansion. 9-10 bar would be about right, 140 psi or so.

 

[MelsRegal]

Translation,

I didn't smell the fuel in the oil too much but only gasoline can dilute the oil and be very light brown, no trace of water or coolant, I received the new pump and count the rise! The current spark plugs are new, fitted with all the ignition, the old ones were dark brown, not really clean. On the other hand, new tests and research today and it's new! Spark plug removed and against engine block = cylinder 1 weak and yellow spark, the 2nd has a spark? the 3rd nothing??? with that 8 Explosion Impossible. So check cylinder compression and on average 125 b, phew! The 455 must have between 100/160 b and less than 10% difference between them, it's OK. On the other hand, it's the ignition for sure which does not supply enough and not all the cylinders! So disassembly of the distributor head and checking the clearance between the magnet and the coil? Washers are provided but no explanations and they said on average 00.25 / 00.50, is it good?? the coil must it be changed for a powerful one in my case?? If I adjust the spark for a Blue and Clear color and all are well supplied! I bet it explodes like a clock!



If the spark plugs are wet with fuel, they will not want to fire. What electronic ignition are you using? Compression tests will be invalid because the engine is cold. It needs to be at least warm so that all parts are up to the proper expansion. 9-10 bar would be about right, 140 psi or so.

Install the stock distributor using ignition points.