Road Force balancing, vibration questions

For your information, Road force balancing is a scam period. All and i mean ALL vibration is caused by tire/wheel assembly. Usually 99% of the time TIRES. If the tires are properly balanced and NOT DEFECTIVE. the car's front end can be loose as a goose, out of alignment, etc., and you will not get vibration/shimmy/shaking, etc on a relatively smooth road. As I have mention in numerous articles and borne out of extensive experience, Several factors cause vibration from tires. Simple out of balance; tire run out both circumference and lateral; non-linear circumference tread/sidewall stiffness;

I'll defer to your experience on this one as I have none. I know the posts I read about it seemed to make sense and the road force balancing process itself appeared to have a good logical basis to it. In my case, the road force balancing did nothing to address the problem, backing up your assertion. Thankfully they charged me the cost of a standard balance given that the road force balance didn't help. In any case, it's not over yet. If I can somehow get a replacement tire in warranty or even pro-rated, that would be a good next step for me.
 
There you go again with an out of context BS reply. What about an out of balance engine fly wheel, or harmonic balancer or bent axle/spindle or inoperative struts/shocks or out of balance crank shaft or piston/rod assembly. Or possibly too much coffee in the morning. In case you didn't notice or bother to actually read and understand the issue was TIRES. No wonder many people get fed up with this forum and leave. You and some like you on this forum are more interested in sharp shooting/work smithing than actually trying to help a fellow car owner.

To be fair to tjc78, I don't actually know the cause of the vibration. Based on past experience and limited knowledge, I assumed the cause was tires out of balance and hoped that a road force balance would get rid of it. The cause of the vibration could easily be any other component, I just hope it's something simple like tires. The fact that the winter tires/rims don't produce the vibration does seem to point at the tires.
 
I had a slight vibration - took it to the dealer at ~ 2,000 miles - they road force balanced and found 1 tire out of spec and replaced it with a brand new tire - no charge for anything. Unfortunately, it did not seem to affect the slight vibration either way, and the vibration doesn't seem to be any better or worse now at ~5,500 miles. I am thinking that it might just be the feel of the low rolling resistance tires and 35 psi inflation ? (2012 with e-Assist)
 
if you are gonna get GY then call John at Bramalea Tire to get a price - back in the day I have bought lots of GYs from him, at that time he had the best price in town and even used to sell road hazard which I find hard to get in Canada

I typically deal with Steelcase Tire in Markham but I'll add Bramalea Tire to my list and check with him in case GYs are called for. If I do end up replacing my tires tho, it will NOT be with another set of Goodyears. With my last car, I ended up getting a set of Nexen N3000 tires (inexpensive Korean tire) and was WAY happier with them than the GYs they replaced (partly because they cost half the price but also their excellent wet and dry performance).
 
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In your original post you correctly diagnosed the vibration problem as tire related by virtue of saying your winter tires did not cause vibration!! As for Road Force Balancing, it is a tool to help diagnose a tire problem by applying a roller force to the spinning tire to measure run out, etc. I know it all sounds logical in a theoretical sense but the question that begs to be answered is, "what can be done to correct a defective tire problem"? Guess what, the road force manual says to match the tire high spot to the wheel rim low spot. Magically, you will have a rim that has just the right amount of low spot to match the tire high spot and away you go happily every after. WHAT TOTAL NON-SENSE. Besides dynamic balancing and mounting the tire in an array of different orientations on the rim, there is nothing more that can be done to change the tire/wheel dynamics. The bottom line is: If a tire has excessive run out, excessive rubber mass causing non-linear flexibility, tread separation, etc., you simply have a defective tire and no amount of Road force Balance BS will correct it. Obviously the same goes for a rim that has either excessive high or low spots on its circumference. Yes, the Road force Balance machine works great on tires and rims that are, you guessed it "not defective".
 
Interesting! Makes sense when you explain in that way. I'm surprised that the people buying these things for the dealerships haven't figured it out. Ah well, maybe in the end they are using it as more of a diagnosis/measurement tool rather than a fix.

Update on my sutuation: I got a call from the dealership asking me to bring in all my records of previous tire rotations and maintenance done on the car. They will submit this to the district sales manager and see if the manager would be willing to replace the tires. Best news I've had yet regarding this issue. If they pull this off, I'll be very pleased. I believe I've chosen the right dealership for my service needs. They are making a serious effort to correct this vibration issue.
 
My dealership is really good too. The starter died in one of my old Saturns last week about 4pm. I was in a sloped parking garage so it was easy to bump start (it's a stick). I called Buick on my way to them (from about 20 miles away) and they had a shuttle ready to take me home when I arrived. They had it replaced by 10am the next morning, brought me back, and then charged me $75 less than quoted because they applied a service coupon from their website (which I knew nothing about). Must have been the donuts. I hit a DD on the way (had to leave the car running) and left a couple boxes of donut holes on the passenger seat. In the end the donut holes cost me -$60. Works every time 🙂

Good luck with your tire issue, I hope they come through for you.
 
My dealership is really good too. The starter died in one of my old Saturns last week about 4pm. I was in a sloped parking garage so it was easy to bump start (it's a stick). I called Buick on my way to them (from about 20 miles away) and they had a shuttle ready to take me home when I arrived. They had it replaced by 10am the next morning, brought me back, and then charged me $75 less than quoted because they applied a service coupon from their website (which I knew nothing about). Must have been the donuts. I hit a DD on the way (had to leave the car running) and left a couple boxes of donut holes on the passenger seat. In the end the donut holes cost me -$60. Works every time 🙂

Good luck with your tire issue, I hope they come through for you.

Glad to hear that you have a good working relationship with your dealer. Feel free to contact me if you would like to provide additional feedback. Thank you.

Tricia, Buick Customer Service.
 
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Yeah - it's interesting how different the experience can be form one dealer to the next
 
Update on my sutuation: I got a call from the dealership asking me to bring in all my records of previous tire rotations and maintenance done on the car. They will submit this to the district sales manager and see if the manager would be willing to replace the tires. Best news I've had yet regarding this issue. If they pull this off, I'll be very pleased. I believe I've chosen the right dealership for my service needs. They are making a serious effort to correct this vibration issue.[/QUOTE]

From my perspective it may be a little early to run up the victory flag quite yet. It is a small step in the right direction but there are a number of issues to consider and it all comes down to money. First off, you need to check your owners manual and see what category your pro-rate tire adjustment falls into. You must also be aware that the adjustment will ALWAYS be against the inflated LIST PRICE of the tires, a price most people don't pay when making a purchase. Usually, the remaining tread wear is the basis used for the pro-rated adjustment. And, you need to make sure that when the adjustment is made and before you agree to it, the adjustment is based on the calculated remaining tread wear on the tires WHEN YOU FIRST BROUGHT THE CAR INTO THE DEALER WITH THE DEFECTIVE TIRE COMPLAINT. NOT THE REMAINING TREAD DEPTH NOW ON THE TIRES. You do need proof such as the service record receipt. Don't forget you will have to pay for the mounting and balance of the new tires and possibly a little more. The tires will be adjusted with the assumption that you will get the same poor quality Goodyear tires that are now on the car that have failed, possibly tread separation. Goodyear tires have a history of such failures and look to be in the same situation in about another year if you replace them with original equipment Goodyear tires. If I were you, I'd check the price of better tires from a discount retailer such as COSTCO and then compare the dealer entire pro-rated adjustment cost to you before making a final decision as to the best course of action to take. Good luck.
 
From my perspective it may be a little early to run up the victory flag quite yet. It is a small step in the right direction but there are a number of issues to consider and it all comes down to money. First off, you need to check your owners manual and see what category your pro-rate tire adjustment falls into. You must also be aware that the adjustment will ALWAYS be against the inflated LIST PRICE of the tires, a price most people don't pay when making a purchase. Usually, the remaining tread wear is the basis used for the pro-rated adjustment. And, you need to make sure that when the adjustment is made and before you agree to it, the adjustment is based on the calculated remaining tread wear on the tires WHEN YOU FIRST BROUGHT THE CAR INTO THE DEALER WITH THE DEFECTIVE TIRE COMPLAINT. NOT THE REMAINING TREAD DEPTH NOW ON THE TIRES. You do need proof such as the service record receipt. Don't forget you will have to pay for the mounting and balance of the new tires and possibly a little more. The tires will be adjusted with the assumption that you will get the same poor quality Goodyear tires that are now on the car that have failed, possibly tread separation. Goodyear tires have a history of such failures and look to be in the same situation in about another year if you replace them with original equipment Goodyear tires. If I were you, I'd check the price of better tires from a discount retailer such as COSTCO and then compare the dealer entire pro-rated adjustment cost to you before making a final decision as to the best course of action to take. Good luck.

I have no plans to pay anything for Goodyear tires. The impression I got when speaking to the service rep is they are going to try to get the tires for me free of charge. If they do, I'll be happy. If not, I'll have to live with what I have now because given what I paid for one replacement Goodyear, I can only guess two would be about twice as much (even if the dealer's price is different, probably won't be by much). Even if there is a pro-rated discount, I can't see it being enough. The next time I pay for tires, they won't be Goodyears.
 
Update:

The dealer replaced 1 rear tire under warranty. The other rear tire also needs replacing (will not Road Force balance properly) but I bought it separately after I had the original tire damaged while driving, so I need to get the tire shop where I bought it to replace that.

So far, I'm very pleased with my dealer. They've come through for me in a big way. As much as I've never bough tires from a dealer before, I believe I'll give them first crack at it when it comes time to replace my tires. I'll still get comparative quotes but if they even clome close, I'll give the business to them. Service this good has value to me. Another point for Humberview Buick GMC (Toronto).
 
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Glad to hear your dealership is working for you. Good service really makes a difference and one I'm will to pay a little extra for as well.

I haven't had to take my car in yet (other than 2 oil changes) but I've bought several vehicles from them over the last 30 years and have had no issues.
 
Have the dealer do a runout check or the wheels themselves. Witha dial indicator and a mag base youi can do it on the car. The Chinese have been known to mis machine wheels such that the wheel uniformity is inaccurate to the point of vibration regardless of how good or bad the tires are. It doesn't take much. I had two wheels that had runout in the area of .012 to .020 as measured on the inside of the rim near the bead seat. The two wheels were replaced and problem went away.
 
So, it's been about a week now since the replacement rear tires were installed (one by the dealer, one by the tire shop where I had bought a tire) and all is well. The vibration is gone. I don't know what the chances are of two tires from two different sources being out of balance but it appears to have been the case. Either I have very bad luck or Goodyear manufacturing standards leave something to be desired.

In any case, problem solved. The road force balancing did its job, which was to identify that there was indeed a problem.
 
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