Torque converter questions.

Thanatos

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
1,570
Reaction score
4
Points
0
Location
Wahoo, NE
Buick Ownership
Roadmaster Wagon x3 Caprice wagon x1
I'm curious for opinions on a new torque converter...
I plan on this being my first 'big' mod in later times but I wanted some info on it first...
What does an aftermarket one do? for lack of a better way to put it...
What kind of difference does it make on performance and mileage ect.
And also what stall levels are best for what kind of usage?
Thanks,
Silas
 
well your'e going to notice maximum results with gears in addition to the TC.

Now the stock TC stalls at like 1400-1500rpm. What that means is when you mash the gas, the converter will slip to that given rpm then TAKE OFF. Kind of like launching a manual trans car. If you want the car to launch at 3000rpm to bring the car closer to it's power band quicker, you put in clutch rev to 3000rpm then let out clutch.

same basic principle almost. A 3000 stall say in an auto. It will still go foward under 3000rpm, but you wont see max power until the converter flashes to designated stall speed. So if you were at a stop and mashed it, it would jump to 3000rpm as it's taking off.

What that does for you is get you to your powerband quickly.

There are a few other things a TC will do, etc. ANother deciding factor when buying a high stall TC would be the stall torque ratio. (STR) a low # is mean the converter will slip more under stall speed, but will retain top end efficiency.

A higher # means a tighter converter (less slip) under stall speed at a sacrafice of high end efficiency. Generally it's not wise to go over a 2.5 STR. THe higher the # the harder it will hit the tires too.

Another important factor is size. Some people cheap out and pay less for a higher stall, but they get a stock sized torque converter (12"). that will generate extra heat, that mr trans doenst like. a smaller diameter converter can stall higher and still retain from generating excesss heat due to slippage. Generally most performance oriented converters are 9.5" 🙂 Generally unless you go really wild on stall the stock trans cooler setup will be fine. I recommend a trans temp gauge just to be sure ..

They can get expensive anywhere from $500-1000. A Few names come to mind, Edge Racing Converters (big on ISSF), Vigilante, Yank, and theres a new place call performabuilt, but there TCs are untested so far.


Since you should buy a TC that still retains a lockup clutch, highway mileage should be unaffected. City mileage will go down because on take off it will require more gas to get the car moving.
 
here is some more information.

This page addresses a few of the common questions about performance high-stall torque converters.

For answers to more specific questions, please give us a call!

What is Torque Converter Stall?

The easy answer is: The RPM a torque converter will allow the engine to attain with a given engine torque input.

How is Torque Converter Stall Measured?

That's where the confusion begins between the racer and the high-performance torque converter builder. Stall is measured in three different ways. TRUE, BRAKE and FLASH Stall. The only true way to set stall is using TRUE stall math.

What is TRUE Stall?

True stall is measured with the transmission locked (Trans brake) and the drive shaft still. The throttle is then fully depressed and held to obtain the holding RPM of the torque converter. This is the "TRUE" Stall.

What is Foot Brake Stall?

This is attained with the transmission in gear and the brakes depressed fully. Now slowly apply the accelerator. The RPM the engine reaches the moment before the tires spin is known as the "BRAKE" Stall. BRAKE Stall is not a consistent way to measure your stall converter and has many variables. This method will be lower then TRUE stall by 400-800 RPM.

What is FLASH Stall?

Flash stall is generally read while the car is in motion. While rolling at a slow speed the throttle is depressed fully to see where the RPM will flash (or peak). This method will not be true if tires spin or car is rolling too fast. Due to the turbine already turning in the torque converter we end up with less torque multiplication. This will give you a lower stall reading of between 200 and 600 RPM under the converters TRUE stall in the same application.

Why do I need a CUSTOM built high stall torque converter?

A torque converter that has a part number has many applications. Many manufactures sell you the same advertised 3200 rpm stall converter for your small block as they would for the next customers big block. This will always result in two very different stall settings ... Do you need a custom built high stall torque converter? Perhaps you don't, but building the units on a one to one basis allows us to put out a product that is configured correct the FIRST time. This is done using a "Performance Torque Converter Application Sheet." It's with this information we can custom configure your high performance torque converter to get the most gains from the performance upgrade.

Why not just buy the "other guys" $99 special?

I was always told that "You get what you pay for." This has never been truer than with a torque converter. Some racers will spend thousands of dollars on the drive train, only to lose 30% of that hard-earned power in a cheaply designed torque converter. Inefficiently stalled torque converters build unwanted transmission heat and never get close to coupling one-to-one (pump to turbine).

Remember! There is more to life then the first 60 feet!

What do we mean by "Specs"?

By "specs" (specifications), I mean the things that add up when building a Custom High Stall Torque Converter, like displacement, cam, horse power, torque--as well as the car or truck it's in--transmission, point of shift (RPM), application (drag, street, street and strip), rear end ratio, tire size, and over all weight. This information is used to tailor your custom torque converter for maximum torque multiplication and efficiency.
 
More Information


If I get a stall converter, can I still drive on the road?

You Bet! When looking into stall converters many people have heard silly things from uninformed friends. One misconception is that if you install a converter with a 3400 stall speed, the car won’t move until 3400 RPMs. Consider that stock is close to 1600 RPM and you have no problem moving at idle with the stock unit. The same is true for the higher stall. It will take a little more throttle, but the car will still move at low throttle and RPMs. In fact, the vast majority of the time, even with very high stalls, the car will still move off of idle.



What do they mean by "loose?"

The looseness of a car or a converter refers to the amount of throttle it takes to move the car at a certain rate. As a general rule, as the stall increases, it will require a higher throttle position to move the car.


Example: Park your car so that it is parked facing up a surface with a slight incline such as a driveway. Put the transmission in a forward gear and take off the brake. Assuming the incline is not too great, the car will either slightly climb, or it will hold itself in place. If you were change to a higher stall converter, in the same situation, the car would likely roll back when the brake is released.



Do I need a transmission cooler?

Yes. We recommend that a transmission cooler is used with even stock converters. They are a great safety precaution and considering that high levels of heat are damaging to transmissions, they just make sense. With higher than stock stalls, more slipping is allowed by the converter creating additional heat. Without an aftermarket transmission cooler, the added heat can be disastrous to the transmission.



Do I need a shift kit?

No. Shift kits will not make your car run any faster. After a higher stall converter is added, shifts can feel softer. A shift kit will firm the shifts back up. Basically it is a preference modification. We recommend driving the car with the new stall for a while. If you still feel that you need firmer shifts, invest in a shift kit, or if you have the capability, shifts can also be firmed through tuning.



What does "STR" mean?

STR stands for Stall Torque Ratio. Basically, STR is torque multiplication. If a car has a higher STR, it will feel tighter on the street because the converter is multiplying the input torque by a higher number. It will also give a harder punch out of the hole. STR is created by two components inside the converter moving at different speeds. Shortly after launch, those components reach an equal speed eliminating STR completely.

For More info on STR, Click Here



What is flash stall?

When the car is in idle and the throttle is stabbed, the converter will jump to a certain RPM. This is flash stall. It is also the rated/advertised stall. Fuddle Racing torque converters are custom built to your set-up; they will flash stall as advertised. As power increases, so does the stall speed. If you are making less than the 400 hp, the converter will stall slightly lower than the advertised stall speed.



What is foot stall, foot-brake stall, or brake stall?

Foot stall is related to the flash stall. However, other factors come more directly into play with the foot stall. Brakes, tires, gear ratios and a cars weight, just to mention a few, can all play into the foot stall speed. To determine foot stall speed, hold one foot on the brake and slowly press down on the throttle. At the point when the drive wheels begin to brake loose, foot stall has been achieved. Foot stall is related to the flash stall. However, other factors come more directly into play with the foot stall. Brakes, tires, gear ratios and a cars weight, just to mention a few, can all play into the foot stall speed. With all of the outside factors playing on foot stall, it is conceivable that the foot stall could be as much as 2500 RPM less that the flash stall.



What is lock-up?

When a converter is locked, converter input and output become equal. A locked converter is as efficient even as a manual transmission. Higher stall torque converters are inherently less efficient than the stock converter. That is simply how they are designed; they slip. A converter can be "locked-up" to counter the slipping. The computer on most cars is programmed to lock the converter at certain speeds depending on engine load and throttle position. Locking the converter gives considerably better fuel economy. It is locked by a solenoid forcing a clutch to engage inside the torque converter. Converters can be locked at WOT, but most converters use clutches that cannot handle that kind of abuse for very long. We offer a model that is built specifically to handle WOT lock-up repeatedly. The clutch it uses is massive compared to normal clutches. With the converter locked at WOT, the 1:1 input/output efficiency makes the car pull HARD at the top end.



What is Pulse Width Modulation?

There is no partial apply on the converter clutch. Lock up is either on or off. PWM is used to get the effect of a partial apply. Your transimssion uses a solenoid to very quickly "pulse" the clutch on and off. With a stock torque converter's clutch, it isn't usually even noticed. This is because the clutch is made of a material that is allowed to slip. The aggressive non-slip clutch material used by Fuddle Racing, this pulsing occasionally is audible. By simply installing even some of the most basic shift kits, you can completely eliminate PWM.



Other Questions?

Please feel free to email or call if you have any questions you don't see listed here.
 
______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!
even more info 🙂

How a 12" converter can have the same stall speed as a 9.5" converter:

Two different sized converters can have the same stall speed, but the efficiencies will vary greatly. A converter pump will tend to have a higher efficiency when its blades have a positive angle to them. The positive angle feeds the most amount of fluid to the turbine. The more fluid you feed the turbine, the harder it pushes on it. The harder the turbine is pushed, the more torque is transferred to the transmission.

For a 12" converter that normally stalls at 1600, to be converted to a 2600 stall, most converter builders will bend the pump blades back to a negative angle to feed less fluid to the turbine. This means the pump will have to turn more rpms to force the turbine with the same amount of fluid as before. As you can imagine, the efficiency starts to drop off rapidly as you bend the blades more and more negative. You will lose rwhp.

A 9.5" converter stalls higher because it generates less fluid by virtue of it's smaller size. It takes more stall to achieve the same amount of hydraulic force of a larger 12" converter. Good thing about a 9.5" converter is that you can achieve very high efficiency in higher stall applications because the pump blades still maintain a very forward pitch to them (positive angle). So in essence, by bending the blades negative on a 12" converter, you are turning it into a heavy, inefficient, higher stall converter in comparison to a smaller diameter converter. This is the very reason why Yank Converters uses a special pump and stator combination to achieve high efficiency along with high stall in its Stealth line of 12" converters.
 
That's interesting.
Basicly a higher stall would be better after a few go-fast mods and for high RPM drag racing huh?
I do a bit more city then highway and am looking for more low end torque I think.
Great information, Thanks.🙂
 
the only thing i dont agree with in the above information was about not needing a shift kit. That's completely untrue for a 4l60e. TO take advantage of a TC you're going to need a TRans-go shift kit installed.

Being that the purpose of the higher stall is to get you to your powerband where peak Tq #s are you're going to feel that low end tq 🙂 Look at my exhaust video and how my car launches at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle.
 
trans-go kit is around $100. Install cost not sure on. If you're good at directions and mechanically inclinded they can be done by the DIYer..
 
Buffmans 3000 Convertor is tighter than one might think - when your just creeping along. I was on the fence as for a high stall convertor, but when I saw how little throttle it took to move, and how it just SLAMMED me to me seat, without having to wait for it to hit 3000rpms and start taking off.

🙂
 
Now I just need me some money😉

Any specific brands to look forward to?
 
you should note that you get what you pay for. Meaning, a $200 B&M isn't gonna be anywhere near a $700 Vigilate / yank.
 
How does having a 2800 converter on my wagon affect my mileage then? Does mean I'm basically never getting an efficient application of force to my wheels in the lower RPMS?
If I have to drive around the city or on the highway where my rpms are low how am I affected vs a stock converter - and PLEASE tell me that the stock torque converters are the same between the 95 sedan and the 94 wagon. I am thinking about leaving the 3.73 rear on there for the winter too, I actually don't want the thing to spin as fast, I'll be doing a lot of 30mph crusing. The regular TC on a 3.73 with some nice 225/75/15's wrapped in heavy duty chains and I'll do great.
 
Torque converters were the same for all 4L60E's behind an LT1 B-body. As far as I know.
 
Back
Top