forged engine build and ZFR turbo install

[fafnir]

http://i48.tinypic.com/j9u7pl.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/2uqexao.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/axfv3m.jpg


images are attached above


less than 1000 miles on the ODO and then decided that doubling or tripling the power would be a good first mod:

wiseco forged pistons with the DI pockets
K1 4340 forged H-beam rods
clevite 77 bearings
ARP main studs, ARP head studs
ZZP 82lb valve spring package

and a ZZP ZFR turbo (Borg Warner EFR 6758)


it'll also eventually run a ZZP intake and downpipe, but at least right now keeping things emissions legal is still high on the list of priorities

tuning is done with trifecta (keep up the great work BNR, BNR is a forum sponsor - excellent service and support btw, would definitely recommend)

completely stock, with the production trifecta tune i picked up ~74whp or so (dynojet), and after datalogging and tweaking, eeked out a gain of 91whp and 84wtq on premium pump gas


should be interesting what the ZFR turbo will pick up - goal is ~400whp - the install should complete within another two weeks or so, and another week after that to get the tune dialed in

who wants to guess the whp after the ZFR install?




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[Stingray]

Keep us posted. Interested in your results.

 

[NHRATA01]

What are you doing for fuel? Seems like the DI injector size is going to always be a limiting factor.

 

[zhouhuice]

That's a bomb! Awesome!

 

[synolimit]

Built block before tranny= not going to be good.

Front wheel drive and shooting for 400 with no limited slip in tranny= going no where fast.

As said what's the fuel increase you plan on doing since im sure you're maxed out now?

 

[GMRedline]

Damn. You are going for it.

Do you have a before and after dyno graph of your stock vs Trifecta tune? Also do you have any more details about your Trifecta tune? I just got a tune from Vince and my car still feels slow as balls.

His custom tune went from ~13psi to ~22psi but the timing dropped from ~13* at wot to about 7*.

 

[synolimit]

Damn. You are going for it.

Do you have a before and after dyno graph of your stock vs Trifecta tune? Also do you have any more details about your Trifecta tune? I just got a tune from Vince and my car still feels slow as balls.

His custom tune went from ~13psi to ~22psi but the timing dropped from ~13* at wot to about 7*.

You say at WOT but at what RPM? What's the graph look like for boost and timing from beginning to the end of a run?

 

[GMRedline]

You say at WOT but at what RPM? What's the graph look like for boost and timing from beginning to the end of a run?

Instead of jacking this thread I will post my question in my own thread if you care to comment.

http://www.buickforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28392

 

[zinner]

Good luck sir, car to say who is building the car? I am interested to know how the ZFR fits the Regal platform.

Also looks like your rocking a flex plate, so it's an auto car?

 

[DonRican]

What's the total tab including labor?

 

[GMRedline]

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Since when did GM offer a sleeveless ecotec block?

 

[fafnir]

Re: OE fuel system concerns and ZFR turbo installed pics

Built block before tranny= not going to be good.

Front wheel drive and shooting for 400 with no limited slip in tranny= going no where fast.

who says i don't have some OS giken going into the car right after i have raybestos clutch packs installed after backcutting the carrier and shoving in a full two more friction plates in there? (auto trans)

some bridges are going to have to be crossed when we get to them, but thats another thread and PM material, as the purpose of this thread was meant to tell everyone that yes, a ZFR fits and has tuning support, RIGHT NOW

http://i45.tinypic.com/amfx1j.jpg

some mods and clearancing is necessary:

on the blue part the heat shielding needs to be cut,

on the green part this air line is just completely different than what came on the stock/OE turbo

and on the orange part, the oil line needs to be modified (lengthened)

the other orange part shows the minimum clearance between the turbo and an AC line, which is about a half inch or so away from the side of the turbo?

Also looks like your rocking a flex plate, so it's an auto car?

yes, its an automatic

Seems like the DI injector size is going to always be a limiting factor.

the OE (E85) fuel system in the LHU/LDK/etc engines are going to have more capacity if only marginally more than the LNF, of which there are plenty of examples running at ~400whp without either a fifth injector or a ZZP camshaft fuel pump lobe upgrade, so yes, it'll probably be a limiting factor eventually, but not more so than either the auto trans or FWD in this case

What are you doing for fuel?

As said what's the fuel increase you plan on doing since im sure you're maxed out now?

if the OE (E85) fuel system fails, then the ZZP camshafts with the larger fuel pump lobes are going in (sitting on a shelf waiting - would like to avoid installing them as it'll affect emissions and idle quality though), and if that fails, then a 5th injector setup is next, and if that altogether fails, then i'm going to machine the cylinder head and weld on a flange and expand the bore of the DI fuel pump to accept a DI pump and lifter out of an LFX engine and if that fails i'll remachine the heads and stick two of them on there, at opposing directions (one will sit off of where the valve cover currently is) and then machine billet stock and gun drill for the DI fuel lines

and if that fails i'll wire in a piggyback fuel solution based off of RPM (window switch most likely) and if that fails i'll swap to standalone with a full set of external port injectors and if that fails then i'll torch the car and claim the insurance money and then buy a V8, pretend none of this stuff ever happened and then get years of therapy to make the nightmares stop

Since when did GM offer a sleeveless ecotec block?

the block still has sleeves, but just really thin sleeves:

http://i47.tinypic.com/15n2brm.jpg

i don't think i've yet come across someone basing their shortblock build on an LHU/LDK block yet (no comparison material available), so that may be part of how the block is different?

the block pictured is the one out of the car

do you have any more details about your Trifecta tune?

i'll send you a PM or we can go into further detail in another thread - but yes, i have a dyno graph of stock vs tuned

 

[GMRedline]

Re: OE fuel system concerns and ZFR turbo installed pics

the OE (E85) fuel system in the LHU/LDK/etc engines are going to have more capacity if only marginally more than the LNF, of which there are plenty of examples running at ~400whp without either a fifth injector or a ZZP camshaft fuel pump lobe upgrade, so yes, it'll probably be a limiting factor eventually, but not more so than either the auto trans or FWD in this case

if the OE (E85) fuel system fails, then the ZZP camshafts with the larger fuel pump lobes are going in (sitting on a shelf waiting - would like to avoid installing them as it'll affect emissions and idle quality though), and if that fails, then a 5th injector setup is next, and if that altogether fails, then i'm going to machine the cylinder head and weld on a flange and expand the bore of the DI fuel pump to accept a DI pump and lifter out of an LFX engine and if that fails i'll remachine the heads and stick two of them on there, at opposing directions (one will sit off of where the valve cover currently is) and then machine billet stock and gun drill for the DI fuel lines

and if that fails i'll wire in a piggyback fuel solution based off of RPM (window switch most likely) and if that fails i'll swap to standalone with a full set of external port injectors and if that fails then i'll torch the car and claim the insurance money and then buy a V8, pretend none of this stuff ever happened and then get years of therapy to make the nightmares stop

There is one other option. Swap the DI, VVT head with one from an LSJ. I am not sure where that fits into your flow chart but I would put it before the torch.

the block still has sleeves, but just really thin sleeves:

That makes sense. Aluminum on aluminum is not good. I assumed it was some sort of nikasil coating that which is used in some automotive applications and small engines.

i don't think i've yet come across someone basing their shortblock build on an LHU/LDK block yet (no comparison material available), so that may be part of how the block is different?

the block pictured is the one out of the car

This is the first I have seen. Although I am new to the Epsilon II platform I am very familiar with ecotecs. The fact that GM is using a semi closed deck to prove more support to the cylinder walls is very impressive. The majority of Gen 1 ecotec failures happen at the top of block. GM tried to remedy the weakness in the Gen 2 ecotec blocks which weakened the bottom of the cylinder walls. This Gen 2.5 seems to be "just right". I know a lot of guys who would have killed for this block 8 years ago...

i'll send you a PM or we can go into further detail in another thread - but yes, i have a dyno graph of stock vs tuned

It can wait. I am sure you will have a stock vs tuned vs built coming after your build is complete.

 

[slow-90lx]

interested in more details on the auto build up. (11 6a turbo here) ya know, just in case I have issues in the future.

 

[fafnir]

http://i49.tinypic.com/2gt7rdg.jpg


so after some datalogging (on the stock turbo) i've come to the conclusion that the OE intercooler is just garbage - ~140f IAT's after 2 pulls in 45f weather

so after messing around with relocating the power steering cooler and fidgeting with the intercooler mounting brackets, i've come to the conclusion that an intercooler that has external dimensions of 23" tall, 34.5" wide and 4" thick will fit with room to spare with enough room yet still on the bottom to use 90 degree elbows to connect to the rest of the pipework

i've got a call into bell and they're telling me that the intercooler core i ordered should be ready in three weeks or so complete with the end tanks

after which fabricating brackets should be the easy part?

 

[snewbyt07]

Totally unrelated, but, was wondering about the wheels, fender badge, and what appears to be headlamp washer cutout in front facia, never seen these before.

 

[GMRedline]

Re: OE fuel system concerns and ZFR turbo installed pics

i don't think i've yet come across someone basing their shortblock build on an LHU/LDK block yet (no comparison material available), so that may be part of how the block is different?

"...The main bearing bulkheads, which support the crank bearings, as well as the cylinder borewalls have been significantly strengthened to support increased engine loads. Refinements to the oil distribution system enable improved oil flow throughout the engine and an expansion of the coolant jacket, along with the use of cast-in-place bore liners, allows more precise boreroundness and improves the block’s ability to dissipate heat."

 

[synolimit]

Just my advice but that intercooler is going to be way to big. A 12" x 3" x by maybe 34" is good for guys running gt35's and 600ish HP. I hope that turbo is a 600+ capable or you're gonna have some bog/lag issues. Even if it is a 60 lb/min turbo I know you said you were going for 400hp so before its build I'd at least shrink it some.

 

[wideflight]

Just my advice but that intercooler is going to be way to big. A 12" x 3" x by maybe 34" is good for guys running gt35's and 600ish HP. I hope that turbo is a 600+ capable or you're gonna have some bog/lag issues. Even if it is a 60 lb/min turbo I know you said you were going for 400hp so before its build I'd at least shrink it some.

I was kind of wondering too if that would create excessive lag...but I bet it will look great😀. Overall your project it awesome

 

[fafnir]

that intercooler is going to be way to big

kind of wondering too if that would create excessive lag

its too late already - the intercooler core and end tanks are already on their way - though i've commissoned the intercooler to have two sections, a top half and a lower half, and if needed, one of the two halves can be blocked off and air routed to pass through only the other section

was wondering about the wheels, fender badge, and what appears to be headlamp washer cutout in front facia

regional differences - vehicles for different regions/markets will have slightly different trims or configs - e.g. a canadian vehicle will have slightly different headlights, tail lights, and headlight washer requirements than that of US or EU spec vehicles - fender badges as well

though the wheels pictured are temporary - did not want to mess up the OE's that came with the car

http://i50.tinypic.com/2u8ulg3.jpg


i just came across three other ZFR installs that are in queue behind mine ( at the same shop) - guess soon there'll be a bunch of ZFR equipped Regals in my area








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