2012 Regal Turbo Timing Chain Issues

[PurpleHaze]

Oil changes and timing chain guides affects more than GM engines. Older high mileage BMW and Nissan/Infiniti models timing chain guides seem to be effected by longer oil change intervals as well.

It seems that the issue is more related to the actually timing chain guide material used which determines how long it takes for the material to wear down. I believe that the timing chain guides are just wear items which will eventually wear down no matter if the oil is changed regularly or not. However, fresh oil can slow down the rate of wear on the guides in my opinion. How much depends on the quality of the guide material itself which various by automaker.

Many automakers are stating that the engines can go longer between oil changes yet owners are discovering that running oil too long can lead to very expensive repairs out of warranty like worn timing chain guides. GM old oil change computer values has been shorten to reflect this truth that running oil too long is not healthy for a engine. The oil can still be lubricating when at 8k miles, however the additives that reduce acids and sludge is usually depleted before the engine reach 8k miles or much sooner depending on the brand of oil; even full synthetic oil. Lubrication is only one function of oil, it also cleans and neutralizes acids.

My take, if you are going to sell the car by 100k miles then just follow the manufacturers oil change recommendation especially long ones. If you want a high mileage car to last near or past 100k miles without major work soon after, then change the oil around 3k-4k miles. Most newer cars have advanced timing chains components that need to be aligned correctly to work including the chain guides which are very susceptible to wearing down by running old oil for 10k miles, maybe even 5k miles.

Long oil changes usually only benefit the dealerships or new car buyers who may switch up every few years in the long term, not the owner who drives the car pass 100k miles. Just my opinion.

Pay now or pay later, because one way of another you will have to spend money on the engine. More oil changes over the years or one major engine repair at one time unless you swap cars often then you pay in a different way by paying on auto loans.

 

[CalBob]

I monitor my oil efficiency by sending a sample of each oil change to Blackstone Labs.
They will probably advise you on this issue if asked.

 

[Drive XR7]

My general rule with all my cars is to run Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil and change it every 5000 miles or 1 year, whatever comes first.

 

[Super LaX]

My general rule with all my cars is to run Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil and change it every 5000 miles or 1 year, whatever comes first.

This ^

I go 6000 which is pretty close to twice a year...... and PF64 filter. '14 and up use the spin-on filter.

 

[EnderWiggin]

I saw earlier in the thread that the OLM for '12 models was around 10k miles, which seems consistent with what I was showing in my OLM. I always changed at 5k mile intervals, but after my GM Stage kit, I'm noticing the OLM is sooner and sooner it seems (closer to 5k mile intervals). I assume it was updated with the PCM Reflash as part of the Stage kit. All that said, my 2012 GS has 45k miles on it, and I luckily haven't had any symptoms yet of any issues like described in the thread.

 

[Walt G]

My early '12 GS was calling for 10k oil changes until I got my Trifecta tune. Trifecta starts from the 'latest' GM calibration and then tunes from there, and that's when I went to about 5k. This and other evidence from people on this forum is why I now am convinced that GM changed the OLM calibration somewhere mid-MY 12.

They didn't do this for no reason. But I am a bit surprised that they didn't notify owners. Again, my theory is that with the low volume of these particular engines, it wasn't really causing GM much pain. But the pain is real for those who have their timing system fail.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I monitor my oil efficiency by sending a sample of each oil change to Blackstone Labs.
They will probably advise you on this issue if asked.

I also use Black Stone. I did my last test on 5w-40 Total Energy 9000 oil used in my last car which I always changed at 3k miles and Black Stone tests showed that the oil could have been ran much longer due to the additives still been active. However, I still just changed my oil at 3k miles since the wear numbers on the engine was none existing (very small wear metals detected)per the test.

I have not tested my Lacrosse oil yet, but after a few more oil changes to completely swap out the previous brand of oil used by the previous owner then I would see how Valvoline high mileage synthetic 5w-30 oil is doing in my engine. However, I will still keep changing my oil at 3k miles since the Black Stone oil test will not read polymer debris from timing chain guides in the sample. Therefore, I change my oil about 3 times a year.

Clean engine oil is very important for modern engines since so much depend on it to function correctly like the timing chain components.

 

[EnderWiggin]

My early '12 GS was calling for 10k oil changes until I got my Trifecta tune. Trifecta starts from the 'latest' GM calibration and then tunes from there, and that's when I went to about 5k. This and other evidence from people on this forum is why I now am convinced that GM changed the OLM calibration somewhere mid-MY 12.

They didn't do this for no reason. But I am a bit surprised that they didn't notify owners. Again, my theory is that with the low volume of these particular engines, it wasn't really causing GM much pain. But the pain is real for those who have their timing system fail.

I thought the MY12 part was odd, since mine is an Auto with a Build date of April 2012 (which I interpret as late MY12).

 

[dan77508]

Is it my bad luck, or is the GS trim LHU a very problematic engine? I bought my 2012 GS with manual transmission in 2016 with 45k miles. I've always done 5k mile oil changes with Valvoline Full Synthetic. I always stay up-to-date with maintenance and I don't drive the car very hard. Like others have experienced, the timing chain failed at 82k miles (December 2017). At the time, I had a third party warranty that was transferred to me from the previous owner. Because the balance shaft was also destroyed, the warranty company chose to have the engine replaced with a salvage motor they sourced that had 62k miles. A trusted shop did the work. I paid the shop to also put in a new clutch. In 2018 I put 22k miles on the car. I had the oil changed 4 times during the year. Nothing unusual during the year. The salvage engine had new plugs and coils installed when put in my car. A couple of nights ago (Dec 2018) while cruising at 65mph in 6th gear at slightly under 2000rpm the salvage engine threw a rod. I had been cruising at 65mph for 4 hours. It was shortly outside Columbus Ohio, I had previously stopped to get gas in Terra Haute Indiana. For four hours I hadn't even changed out of 6th gear or pushed the car over 70mph. No unusual noises. The engine failed with a pop at 1AM. It was 40 degrees outside. Engine temperature normal. No CEL. No indication to me of low oil pressure. The car's last oil change was 1200 miles and two weeks previous. The oil all over the highway was still golden and the sheer quantity of oil did not indicate to me that the car was running low (granted, I'm speculating - but no CEL).

GM is working with me a little. The car is now at 105k and has no warranty whatsoever. GM discounted a long block to me at $2450 and upgraded the warranty on the new engine slightly to 5 years 100k miles. The long block has a lot of new equipment beyond the internals: intake manifold, fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors, coils, water pump, plugs, full set of sensors, etc. The only thing it was missing was a new thermostat. The shop is also replacing the mounts, some hoses, and some other odds and ends. A bit over $5k out of my pocket total. Clutch is still nearly new.

Other than the two engines, the car has been relatively trouble free. No electric gremlins. A couple burned out light bulbs. One failed rear wheel bearing (typical) repaired under warranty. The paint has been outstanding. The car still looks brand new inside and out. The photo is only a couple of months old. I'm inclined to keep putting on the miles until the engine warranty is up and then either sell the car or drive it until the wheels fall off. I see no reason to now sell the car now that it has a fresh engine warranty. The shop claims I've put almost no wear on the clutch. I do a lot of highway driving. My best bet is a badly designed engine. Or, two engines with a poor maintenance history before I received them.

I've owned many Buicks and Chevrolet trucks. I've never on any car of any make had a catastrophic engine failure. I've never lost a timing chain or a belt. My Toyota truck is approaching 300k miles (clutch replaced once). This car has had two engine failures and is just barely breaking 100k miles. I'm hesitant to ever buy General Motors again. Have I simply been unlucky recently or is this happening to others?

 

[dan77508]

One piece of advice, if you find yourself in a position needing a new engine, go with a new GM long block. If you work with them on the phone with a shop that goes to bat for you, a discount can be had that makes the price competitive with salvage or rebuild. Second, you get the additional new components beyond the typical long block: intake manifold, gasket, sensors, fuel pump, fuel rail, plugs, coils, water pump, etc. (you might even consider a new turbo, that'll tack a $1k to the bill). Third, you get a substantial warranty, Fourth, you control all the maintenance on the new motor. My belief is the LHU is very finicky about maintenance. Keep the oil changed at 5k, etc. There is no way to monitor previous maintenance on a used car or motor. I think I got burned by two poorly maintained motors before I received them.

 

[pkgmsu2000]

I monitor my oil efficiency by sending a sample of each oil change to Blackstone Labs.
They will probably advise you on this issue if asked.

kudos my good man. blackstone offers a great service and the people are very knowledgeable, helpful.

 

[Mprice82]

At 35000 miles the bolts holding the timing chain tensioner failed. My car was six months past the warranty date and the dealer would not pay anything on the over $2,000.00 repair estimate. When I complained he gave me the number for GM Customer service. After two weeks of waiting for them to decide if they would help, I took the car to my local mechanic and had him do the engine repairs. I did some research online and there are many mechanics that are working to cars with this problem. GM needs to recall these vehicles and re-emburse the owners that have paid to have the problem fixed. This problem may effect the power brakes so it is also a safety issue.

I own a Buick Regal , my boyfriend bought a Buick because he loved mine so much , and both of them had the same exact problem a month apart . Then the tow truck driver came and said he owned the same car and his timing chain went out also . Rediculous!!!!! We all paid a lot of money for these cars , and this is beyond a failure. So disappointed in this company

 

[Joeyg0317]

I have a 2012 regal GS with 55k miles, went to start car and it would not. Took to mechanic and they said the tension bolt to timing chain broke off and bent cylinder valves. Air blows right thru valves when closed. Need to get a motor replacement. Job estimated around 5k. Car is currently at shop now. Any one know of any class action suits against GM for this issue with the regal GS?

 

[Justplainlow]

I have a 2012 regal GS with 55k miles, went to start car and it would not. Took to mechanic and they said the tension bolt to timing chain broke off and bent cylinder valves. Air blows right thru valves when closed. Need to get a motor replacement. Job estimated around 5k. Car is currently at shop now. Any one know of any class action suits against GM for this issue with the regal GS?

I’d be interested too. Mine did the same thing a month or two ago. 116k miles cost me 3k. A new head and timing set for me. The tensioner failed.

 

[HotZ28]

I hope they fired the num-nuts that designed the timing chain/tensioner & less than adequate bolts. The whole cam drive system/chain looks like that of what I remember from my bicycle back in the 50's.

 

[Joeyg0317]

I hope they fired the num-nuts that designed the timing chain/tensioner & less than adequate bolts. The whole cam drive system/chain looks like that of what I remember from my bicycle back in the 50's.

Haha. You got that right

 

[fastNYsix]

I have a 2012 regal GS with 55k miles, went to start car and it would not. Took to mechanic and they said the tension bolt to timing chain broke off and bent cylinder valves. Air blows right thru valves when closed. Need to get a motor replacement. Job estimated around 5k. Car is currently at shop now. Any one know of any class action suits against GM for this issue with the regal GS?

The engine is fine. Tell the shop to pull head off and put valves in it. I've done many this way. Usually the intake valves are all bent. And of course new timing chains. Or a remanufactured head is 500. Then timing chain components are 100. Should be a 1500 dollar job. The valves are very weak and bend easily. Notice the piston has zero damage from valve contact.

 

[ManualSatisfaction]

Is it my bad luck, or is the GS trim LHU a very problematic engine? I bought my 2012 GS with manual transmission in 2016 with 45k miles. I've always done 5k mile oil changes with Valvoline Full Synthetic. I always stay up-to-date with maintenance and I don't drive the car very hard. Like others have experienced, the timing chain failed at 82k miles (December 2017). At the time, I had a third party warranty that was transferred to me from the previous owner. Because the balance shaft was also destroyed, the warranty company chose to have the engine replaced with a salvage motor they sourced that had 62k miles. A trusted shop did the work. I paid the shop to also put in a new clutch. In 2018 I put 22k miles on the car. I had the oil changed 4 times during the year. Nothing unusual during the year. The salvage engine had new plugs and coils installed when put in my car. A couple of nights ago (Dec 2018) while cruising at 65mph in 6th gear at slightly under 2000rpm the salvage engine threw a rod. I had been cruising at 65mph for 4 hours. It was shortly outside Columbus Ohio, I had previously stopped to get gas in Terra Haute Indiana. For four hours I hadn't even changed out of 6th gear or pushed the car over 70mph. No unusual noises. The engine failed with a pop at 1AM. It was 40 degrees outside. Engine temperature normal. No CEL. No indication to me of low oil pressure. The car's last oil change was 1200 miles and two weeks previous. The oil all over the highway was still golden and the sheer quantity of oil did not indicate to me that the car was running low (granted, I'm speculating - but no CEL).

GM is working with me a little. The car is now at 105k and has no warranty whatsoever. GM discounted a long block to me at $2450 and upgraded the warranty on the new engine slightly to 5 years 100k miles. The long block has a lot of new equipment beyond the internals: intake manifold, fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors, coils, water pump, plugs, full set of sensors, etc. The only thing it was missing was a new thermostat. The shop is also replacing the mounts, some hoses, and some other odds and ends. A bit over $5k out of my pocket total. Clutch is still nearly new.

Other than the two engines, the car has been relatively trouble free. No electric gremlins. A couple burned out light bulbs. One failed rear wheel bearing (typical) repaired under warranty. The paint has been outstanding. The car still looks brand new inside and out. The photo is only a couple of months old. I'm inclined to keep putting on the miles until the engine warranty is up and then either sell the car or drive it until the wheels fall off. I see no reason to now sell the car now that it has a fresh engine warranty. The shop claims I've put almost no wear on the clutch. I do a lot of highway driving. My best bet is a badly designed engine. Or, two engines with a poor maintenance history before I received them.

I've owned many Buicks and Chevrolet trucks. I've never on any car of any make had a catastrophic engine failure. I've never lost a timing chain or a belt. My Toyota truck is approaching 300k miles (clutch replaced once). This car has had two engine failures and is just barely breaking 100k miles. I'm hesitant to ever buy General Motors again. Have I simply been unlucky recently or is this happening to others?

View attachment 13100

 

[ManualSatisfaction]

Is it my bad luck, or is the GS trim LHU a very problematic engine? I bought my 2012 GS with manual transmission in 2016 with 45k miles. I've always done 5k mile oil changes with Valvoline Full Synthetic. I always stay up-to-date with maintenance and I don't drive the car very hard. Like others have experienced, the timing chain failed at 82k miles (December 2017). At the time, I had a third party warranty that was transferred to me from the previous owner. Because the balance shaft was also destroyed, the warranty company chose to have the engine replaced with a salvage motor they sourced that had 62k miles. A trusted shop did the work. I paid the shop to also put in a new clutch. In 2018 I put 22k miles on the car. I had the oil changed 4 times during the year. Nothing unusual during the year. The salvage engine had new plugs and coils installed when put in my car. A couple of nights ago (Dec 2018) while cruising at 65mph in 6th gear at slightly under 2000rpm the salvage engine threw a rod. I had been cruising at 65mph for 4 hours. It was shortly outside Columbus Ohio, I had previously stopped to get gas in Terra Haute Indiana. For four hours I hadn't even changed out of 6th gear or pushed the car over 70mph. No unusual noises. The engine failed with a pop at 1AM. It was 40 degrees outside. Engine temperature normal. No CEL. No indication to me of low oil pressure. The car's last oil change was 1200 miles and two weeks previous. The oil all over the highway was still golden and the sheer quantity of oil did not indicate to me that the car was running low (granted, I'm speculating - but no CEL).

GM is working with me a little. The car is now at 105k and has no warranty whatsoever. GM discounted a long block to me at $2450 and upgraded the warranty on the new engine slightly to 5 years 100k miles. The long block has a lot of new equipment beyond the internals: intake manifold, fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors, coils, water pump, plugs, full set of sensors, etc. The only thing it was missing was a new thermostat. The shop is also replacing the mounts, some hoses, and some other odds and ends. A bit over $5k out of my pocket total. Clutch is still nearly new.

Other than the two engines, the car has been relatively trouble free. No electric gremlins. A couple burned out light bulbs. One failed rear wheel bearing (typical) repaired under warranty. The paint has been outstanding. The car still looks brand new inside and out. The photo is only a couple of months old. I'm inclined to keep putting on the miles until the engine warranty is up and then either sell the car or drive it until the wheels fall off. I see no reason to now sell the car now that it has a fresh engine warranty. The shop claims I've put almost no wear on the clutch. I do a lot of highway driving. My best bet is a badly designed engine. Or, two engines with a poor maintenance history before I received them.

I've owned many Buicks and Chevrolet trucks. I've never on any car of any make had a catastrophic engine failure. I've never lost a timing chain or a belt. My Toyota truck is approaching 300k miles (clutch replaced once). This car has had two engine failures and is just barely breaking 100k miles. I'm hesitant to ever buy General Motors again. Have I simply been unlucky recently or is this happening to others?

View attachment 13100

Dan,

Do you still have the information as to who you corresponded with at GM?. I am having the same issue now with my 12 GS and am interested in replacing the block.