Sputtering and Stuttering at Idle

1 No (but comes close)
2 MT

Mine car has 6k miles, is 6 mos old and has done it maybe two or three times - always within 5 or so minutes of leaving my house in the morning for work when sitting a light in neutral, clutch in.
 
Until mine was fixed would occur shortly after initial start up. It stalled once completely. I had filled up with gas, fired her up, put into drive, and started to apply just a bit of gas to clear the pump protection post, then turned the wheels hard over. I needed to pull a 180 to head out the way I came. Soon as i let off the gas and got into the turn it died. I was going a good 2mph. Wondered why my steering got rock hard mid steer to full lock, pow was dead.

so:
Yes
Auto
 
Can any of you monitor timing? The 2.4 in my Saturn Sky has a similar dip on idle. The timing actually gets bumped up for a second or so. With a loud exhaust it's more noticeable.
 
1.) Yes (twice)
2.) Manual

I'm wondering if it could be something electrical too? I had my dome lamp on the other night when the car stuttered at a stop, and the lamp dimmed significantly as the car sputtered... Just thought I would point that out.
 
ok, now i am 100% convinced that its oil pressure related. Last few days with warmer mornings and days the vehicle is not being started in sub 45 degrees. The actuators and solenoids are controlled by oil pressure. Now that its warming up the oil is thinner on cold start up. I think that is 1 of the problems, and i also think that once the actuator/or solenoid is damaged it will do it even after the car is warmed up. I have not stalled since my last post, however the rpms do bounce like it wanted to stall. I will monitor over the next few days and give an update.
 
Rounder,
I think I'm in your boat with the oil pressure being the culprit. I think the easy step for GM to address the issue is to update oil monitoring systems in this engine's footprint.
But in speaking with others, and it's been pointed out in this forum, keep a closer eye on your oil levels beyond 2000 miles.

Even though my dealership recommended 4000, I'm going to go more frequently to mitigate the risk of more failure, and I'll just monitor the oil levels more closely at 1000 mile intervals.

Since my repair, where my engine was replaced due to timing chain guide failure, I haven't had any issues. She runs like she was new, which tells me it's not transmission related, and it was the engine all along.
 
Rounder,
I think I'm in your boat with the oil pressure being the culprit. I think the easy step for GM to address the issue is to update oil monitoring systems in this engine's footprint.
But in speaking with others, and it's been pointed out in this forum, keep a closer eye on your oil levels beyond 2000 miles.

Even though my dealership recommended 4000, I'm going to go more frequently to mitigate the risk of more failure, and I'll just monitor the oil levels more closely at 1000 mile intervals.

Since my repair, where my engine was replaced due to timing chain guide failure, I haven't had any issues. She runs like she was new, which tells me it's not transmission related, and it was the engine all along.


not sure if you have the 2.4L or 2.0T. If you have the 2.4 definitely monitor your oil at 2000 miles. as far as the 2.0T guys i do not see an oil consumption issue. I dont think it has to do with the vehicle making the proper oil pressure as much as it has to do with e actuators and solenoids reacting to the oil pressure. As soon as we have a slower day at the dealership im going to have my GM World Class technician reprogram my ecm as well as put probably both solenoids (intake and exhaust) in. I think that will solve the problem. Im hoping friday it will happen. Again i have not stalled since temp has gone up however it does have an erratic idle.
 
not sure if you have the 2.4L or 2.0T. If you have the 2.4 definitely monitor your oil at 2000 miles. as far as the 2.0T guys i do not see an oil consumption issue. I dont think it has to do with the vehicle making the proper oil pressure as much as it has to do with e actuators and solenoids reacting to the oil pressure. As soon as we have a slower day at the dealership im going to have my GM World Class technician reprogram my ecm as well as put probably both solenoids (intake and exhaust) in. I think that will solve the problem. Im hoping friday it will happen. Again i have not stalled since temp has gone up however it does have an erratic idle.


Let me know how it works, I have 3 world class techs here, we have been to busy to mess around with my car but they though either actuators and solenoids or a open-closed loop isssue. Would love to get a fix to this although my car has not done this in a few weeks.
 
1.)No - has come really close on a few occasions, has not happened much since the temps have warmed
2.)MT

and 3.) For ha-ha's Build Date:10/28/2011 (Plant 9)

Neil,

Can you have one of your techs force run the "OBD2 system performs a catalytic converter efficiency test" while you sit in the car. See if that is the same vibration?

Still no word back from GM, but my buddy expects something this week.
 
1) NO
2) AUTO

Mine seems to happen at an extended stop such as a stop light where it sits at idle for 15 or more seconds and not a stop sign where it's a quick stop and go. It also seems to happen shortly after starting a drive and not after an extended trip.

Exactly the same here. Mine happens ever morning like clock work at the same light on the way to work, about 2 minutes into the drive.

I data logged it but of course the dealer wouldn't care about the log. They can't replicate the issue so I've lived with it. Why the spark advance is all over the place who knows. There is also a STFT spike which is pretty pronounced just as the idle is calming down.

Maybe it's just transitioning from open loop to closed loop and the tune is off a bit more than it should in a production car.

1) No stall but shakes the car like a 1940's john deer idling, not just mildly annoying, but rather much so.

2) Auto.
 
I was just wondering............

For you guys with the Trifecta tune, do you still have this rough idle problem?
 
guys with the Trifecta tune, do you still have this rough idle problem?

the destabilized idling is actually the cat-warmup feature interfering with the LTFTs

the cat-warmup feature when activated, will affect accurate fueling of the vehicle,

at the end of the feature activation (about 90-120 seconds into a commute drive or so) the vehicle will have to re-learn and re-adjust to the change in fueling and the result is what you are describing as "sputtering and stuttering at idle"

in effect, the cat-warmup feature will either dump fuel into the combustion cycle or in rare instances lean the vehicle out until it almost (or in some cases) just dies at a stoplight for example, and when this is happening, the O2 sensor data is being ignored and when its actually coming off of this cycle, and when the O2 sensor data is being picked back up, the vehicle timing and fueling will "panic" a bit and then try and compensate for what it thinks is completely unrelated fueling issues, and the resulting compensation, usually in the form of huge timing spikes, STFTs going + or - into the 30 percent range, etc, will cause the idle destabilization


to answer your question, with a Trifecta tune, you can request (at extra engineering time) that the cat-warmup and related features be disable and that the closed loop conditions be altered to a slightly higher coolant and oil temp and this condition will no longer be evident

or in other words, with a Trifecta tune, why YES, this can be fixed - i'm sure jerry@BNR/Trifecta can help you with this if you buy your tune from him?



Mine happens ever morning like clock work at the same light on the way to work, about 2 minutes into the drive.

you must be the most consistent person ever, and especially so if on the commute it happens at the same light, e.g. at 0:00:05 you start the ignition, at 0:00:12 you look at your mailbox as you're pulling out of your driveway, and at 0:01:45 you're just coming to the end of the road where your street ends or something

i had to become more consistent to find out that ironically it more or less happens at the same time on my commute



I data logged it

hptuners will probably not help in this case, as your screen grabs did not even show the STFTs bottoming out or in some instances topping out

at a minimum you have to datalog with the dealership MDI or GDI in some regions and then show the tech the STFT and resulting LTFT behavior



the idle is calming down

on everyone elses car when the cat-overtemp feature activates it is an annoyance, but if you search up my other posts, on my ZFR (EFR6758) turbo equipped, forged motor aftermarket camshaft regal GS, when the vehicle decides to ignore the O2 data at about 90 seconds into the morning commute and i'm just deciding that i'm about to put my 420whp to good use and am about to boost 29psi on an EFR6758, it is no longer "just an annoyance"
 
hptuners will probably not help in this case, as your screen grabs did not even show the STFTs bottoming out or in some instances topping out

at a minimum you have to datalog with the dealership MDI or GDI in some regions and then show the tech the STFT and resulting LTFT behavior

I just pulled those screens from an old data log. It does show a STFT spike. My config was not really setup for the regal as the e39 was not fully supported when I took the log a good while back.

The newest HP tuners is now allowing me to at least read the ECU and some the tables are there. I haven't looked at the scanner to see if relevant sensors have shown up, and see if it shows the appropriate switches for cat warm up.

I didn't look at the tables if there are options to disable the cat warm up or not.
 
Looks like they updated the HPtuners software today... The cat warm-up can now be disabled on E39 ecu's.
-edit- Just to clarify, I can't write tunes yet on the ECU, still waiting on OS/VIN confirmation. I can still read and open up the files to have a look see. When support is released, I'll try disabling the cat warm up and see if there is an impact.
 
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I could not for the life of me find the cat converter efficiency test in the GDS MDI today. Mike do you know where to find it?
 
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