2.0T LTG Performance Mods

[gmguy83]

The O2 bolts on, or the entire DP bolts in?

Zzp calls it an o2 housing, it is the turbo exhaust outlet pipe which contains the catalytic converter. So, it is what most people would call the downpipe.

 

[mike69440]

Zzp calls it an o2 housing, it is the turbo exhaust outlet pipe which contains the catalytic converter. So, it is what most people would call the downpipe.

Most cars have an O2 sensor before and after the lite off Cat.

Does the LTG have this Dual O2 sensor set up, and if so how can the downstream O2 sensor read correctly without a Cat?
Without supporting Mods, what does this "DownPipe" get you?

 

[Bald Regal]

Zzp calls it an o2 housing, it is the turbo exhaust outlet pipe which contains the catalytic converter. So, it is what most people would call the downpipe.

And the Malibu one bolts into our TourX? ZZP was unable to advise.

 

[gmguy83]

Most cars have an O2 sensor before and after the lite off Cat.

Does the LTG have this Dual O2 sensor set up, and if so how can the downstream O2 sensor read correctly without a Cat?
Without supporting Mods, what does this "DownPipe" get you?

Yes, the zzp downpipe has 2 o2 bungs. Yes, the 2018 regal has ho2s positions 1 and 2, position 2 being post-cat. Without a cat in the downpipe, the post-cat o2 will be fluctuating to mirror the pre-cat o2, since there is no catalyst to burn off the excess fuel vapors.

This does nothing for me as of yet, i am waiting for ipf tuning to finish a tune for my car. But when the tune is finished, it will help. I've installed the catless downpipe, and modified the exhaust to be free-flowing, and have a "cold air" intake which is debatable on if it helps, but i like hearing the blowoff.

I am just gettin set up for when my tune is finished, and sharing info on what parts will fit the new regal ltg.

 

[Bald Regal]

Yes, the zzp downpipe has 2 o2 bungs. Yes, the 2018 regal has ho2s positions 1 and 2, position 2 being post-cat. Without a cat in the downpipe, the post-cat o2 will be fluctuating to mirror the pre-cat o2, since there is no catalyst to burn off the excess fuel vapors.

This does nothing for me as of yet, i am waiting for ipf tuning to finish a tune for my car. But when the tune is finished, it will help. I've installed the catless downpipe, and modified the exhaust to be free-flowing, and have a "cold air" intake which is debatable on if it helps, but i like hearing the blowoff.

I am just gettin set up for when my tune is finished, and sharing info on what parts will fit the new regal ltg.

Additionally, most post cat o2s are only a sniffer for emissions, the majority of ecm tuning functions are based on the pre cat

 

[gmguy83]

And the Malibu one bolts into our TourX? ZZP was unable to advise.

Yes, the 2016+ malibu downpipe will directly bolt in. My 2018 regal is awd, and is the same exact layout as the awd tourx.

 

[Bald Regal]

Yes, the 2016+ malibu downpipe will directly bolt in. My 2018 regal is awd, and is the same exact layout as the awd tourx.

Thank you so much for verifying! Did you throw a CEL without a tune?

 

[gmguy83]

Additionally, most post cat o2s are only a sniffer for emissions, the majority of ecm tuning functions are based on the pre cat

Correct, O2 #2 is only for checking the cat efficiency

Thank you so much for verifying! Did you throw a CEL without a tune?

It usually takes a while, but it will set p0420 after a while. Just keep a cheap code reader with ya.

 

[mike69440]

LTG ZFR Turbo

TourX seems to have more the rated power by my Butt o-Meter. Howerver In the week and 700miles I've so far put on the car the ambient temperatures ranged from near 10F below to a high of 30F.
Can anyone give any insight of how much the performance is effected by temperature for the LGT engine?
I hate vehicles with engines that are prone to massive heat soak, then fall on their face during hot weather. When I had the stock Eaton supercharger on my Cobra, especially pullied and chipped, it made me ill how hot weather killed the performance.
I know all boosted engines loose power with increase in temperature more so than N/A motors, but with properly sized inter-cooler, radiator, and efficient turbo or supercharger, the loss of power in not much more than for a N/A motor.

 

[justiz00]

Correct, O2 #2 is only for checking the cat efficiency
...

An O2 spacer might work in the interim as well.

 

[gmguy83]

An O2 spacer might work in the interim as well.

I already have the tune from ipf, so the cel doesn't set anymore. I was thinking about that for a while though.

 

[mike69440]

I already have the tune from ipf, so the cel doesn't set anymore. I was thinking about that for a while though.

So as I understand your mods, they are a an IPF tune
Buick Regal Tunes – IPF Tuning

and the ZZP downpipe without O2 sensor.
https://zzperformance.com/products/zzp-ltg-malibu-regal-o2-housing

So what does your "Butt-Dyno" report so far.
Power delivery?
Driveability?
Octane sesitivity?
Mileage.

Any thoughts on turbo upgrade?
Either this ZZP turbo, which would be a more street daily upgrade and better matched to the Transmission capacity.
https://zzperformance.com/products/ltg-zfr-turbo
BorgWarner/BorgWarner-EFR-6758-G

Or this huge mother, that would want to be a high RPM screamer and more than likely require fueling upgrades & other supporting Mods ?
https://www.trifectaperformance.com/index.html/trifecta-big-turbo-efr7670-20l-ltg-500whp-r118/
BorgWarner/BorgWarner-EFR-7670

 

[gmguy83]

So as I understand your mods, they are a an IPF tune
Buick Regal Tunes – IPF Tuning

and the ZZP downpipe without O2 sensor.
ZZP LTG Malibu/Regal O2 Housing

So what does your "Butt-Dyno" report so far.
Power delivery?
Driveability?
Octane sesitivity?
Mileage.

Any thoughts on turbo upgrade?
Either this ZZP turbo, which would be a more street daily upgrade and better matched to the Transmission capacity.
https://zzperformance.com/products/ltg-zfr-turbo
BorgWarner/BorgWarner-EFR-6758-G

Or this huge mother, that would want to be a high RPM screamer and more than likely require fueling upgrades & other supporting Mods ?
https://www.trifectaperformance.com/index.html/trifecta-big-turbo-efr7670-20l-ltg-500whp-r118/
BorgWarner/BorgWarner-EFR-7670

I have the ipf tune, zzp catless pipe with o2 sensor, k&n intake setup, and will be putting on the jacfab boost-o-lator when i have time.

The butt dyno is not very effective as i also have 200 lbs of subwoofer/enclosure and 22" rims. It does feel more powerful with less throttle, but I am still waiting on the transmission tune to be finished also, which they say has produced some nice gains. I only use premium, so i cant comment in octane sensitivity. It drives just like stock for the nost part, and i havent paid attention to gas milage, I've only had the tune for about 20 miles yet.

I do like the idea of the zzp large turbo upgrade, but i would definitely want to upgrade internals before going that route, and i would probably switch to a trifecta tune if i did.

 

[mike69440]

I have the ipf tune, zzp catless pipe with o2 sensor, k&n intake setup, and will be putting on the jacfab boost-o-lator when i have time.

The butt dyno is not very effective as i also have 200 lbs of subwoofer/enclosure and 22" rims. It does feel more powerful with less throttle, but I am still waiting on the transmission tune to be finished also, which they say has produced some nice gains. I only use premium, so i cant comment in octane sensitivity. It drives just like stock for the nost part, and i havent paid attention to gas milage, I've only had the tune for about 20 miles yet.

I do like the idea of the zzp large turbo upgrade, but I would definitely want to upgrade internals before going that route, and i would probably switch to a trifecta tune if i did.

All my ECM tuning and such revolves around my 03 Cobra. All said and done that was an over $10K exercise. Would I do it again? Absolutely. Before that was just a lot of old school hot roddng and engine, drivetrain builds.
The Cobra and the TourX have something in common, they were both designed by the manufacturer for boosted application. actually they will take a lot of boost.
On the Cobra I went beyond a pulley and a tune because the OEM Heaton supercharger just sucked. I meant Eaton Supercharger.
I could not deal with the heat soak and loss of power.

Lets look at cost performance benefits of modding a 2.0 LGT.
First off, you have legally voided the power train warranty once you load anything to the ECU. Gone. You can't hide that you loaded software. If GM looks, they see it has been modded,. The dealers are instructed by GM to look.
I gave up the powertrain warranty on my Ford with a little more than a year left on it.
I figure than other than inevitably puking out +$10,000 dollars of drivetrain parts, trany, clutch, driveshaft parts, axles, rear end gears, etc. I don't expect the engine to fail. The engine has never had a valve cover lifted, and as long as I don't do something stupid will be fine for another 100K to 200K miles.
Other than maybe the direct injection system on the TourX's 2.0 LGT, I would expect that to be durable also.

First level: (A good tune)
On the 2.0L LGT a $500 tune is advetised to geain 50 HP on unmodified motor.
A stock tour X is at best a 6.5sec 0-60, 14.6 to 14.7 @ 94-95 mph car.
Another 50 solid HP ought to get you a honest 14 Flat, +100 quarter and sixty just under 6 sec.
Other than than warranty loss, such a deal at around $500!

2nd Level (Basic mod's)
Custon 93 Octane tune plus
ZZP LTG Malibu/Regal O2 Housing
and
LTG ZFR Turbo
This ought to yield about 90HP over stock to get you a honest 13.7sec @ 103-104 mph quarter and sixty kike a WRX.
Cost about $3,000. Downside, not much. The GKN drivetrain is fine at this level and you are still not exceeding the AISIN transmission, but the margin has thinned. At his level the car is borderline fast & quite streetable. I would not loose sleep of stock engine internals.

3rd Level (Getting Serious)
Big bad Turbo, Maybe E85, Lots of supporting mods,
Getting to the 400-450HP level , (Boost and Fuel Dependent) is going to cost you.
Figure $8-10K.
Even with torque management in the tune, with repeated hard use I suspect is going to hurt the transmission, and eventually the drive train and motor.
All that for low 13's @ maybe 110 mph. Doing this might be worth it for braggin rights on owning the fastest TourX and I might be wrong on durability, but the TourX still would not be a "fast" car, but a cool toy.

4th level
Getting Stupid. Rather than getting stupid, suggest just getting a stupid fast car, not a Buick.

 

[NormT]

All my ECM tuning and such revolves around my 03 Cobra. All said and done that was an over $10K exercise. Would I do it again? Absolutely. Before that was just a lot of old school hot roddng and engine, drivetrain builds.
The Cobra and the TourX have something in common, they were both designed by the manufacturer for boosted application. actually they will take a lot of boost.
On the Cobra I went beyond a pulley and a tune because the OEM Heaton supercharger just sucked. I meant Eaton Supercharger.
I could not deal with the heat soak and loss of power.

Lets look at cost performance benefits of modding a 2.0 LGT.
First off, you have legally voided the power train warranty once you load anything to the ECU. Gone. You can't hide that you loaded software. If GM looks, they see it has been modded,. The dealers are instructed by GM to look.
I gave up the powertrain warranty on my Ford with a little more than a year left on it.
I figure than other than inevitably puking out +$10,000 dollars of drivetrain parts, trany, clutch, driveshaft parts, axles, rear end gears, etc. I don't expect the engine to fail. The engine has never had a valve cover lifted, and as long as I don't do something stupid will be fine for another 100K to 200K miles.
Other than maybe the direct injection system on the TourX's 2.0 LGT, I would expect that to be durable also.

First level: (A good tune)
On the 2.0L LGT a $500 tune is advetised to geain 50 HP on unmodified motor.
A stock tour X is at best a 6.5sec 0-60, 14.6 to 14.7 @ 94-95 mph car.
Another 50 solid HP ought to get you a honest 14 Flat, +100 quarter and sixty just under 6 sec.
Other than than warranty loss, such a deal at around $500!

2nd Level (Basic mod's)
Custon 93 Octane tune plus
ZZP LTG Malibu/Regal O2 Housing
and
LTG ZFR Turbo
This ought to yield about 90HP over stock to get you a honest 13.7sec @ 103-104 mph quarter and sixty kike a WRX.
Cost about $3,000. Downside, not much. The GKN drivetrain is fine at this level and you are still not exceeding the AISIN transmission, but the margin has thinned. At his level the car is borderline fast & quite streetable. I would not loose sleep of stock engine internals.

3rd Level (Getting Serious)
Big bad Turbo, Maybe E85, Lots of supporting mods,
Getting to the 400-450HP level , (Boost and Fuel Dependent) is going to cost you.
Figure $8-10K.
Even with torque management in the tune, with repeated hard use I suspect is going to hurt the transmission, and eventually the drive train and motor.
All that for low 13's @ maybe 110 mph. Doing this might be worth it for braggin rights on owning the fastest TourX and I might be wrong on durability, but the TourX still would not be a "fast" car, but a cool toy.

4th level
Getting Stupid. Rather than getting stupid, suggest just getting a stupid fast car, not a Buick.

It is a $2,000 engine...have fun!

 

[gmguy83]

I was mainly interested in finding out how this engine would respond with a few bolts ons and a tune. I've never tuned a stock turbo car, so it was mainly out of curiosity. The only other build I've done was a 460whp/460wtq 2.2 ecotec, which is a completely different scenario due to being an n/a motor and ecm(and it got crazier when i installed it in a geo metro).

I have not looked at doing a crazy ltg build yet, but seeing as there used to be piston issues with them, what does it hurt to spend about a grand for some reassurance. I do know how the warranty works, I am a gm tech and theres nothing i don't feel comfortable rebuilding or repairing on this car if my endeavors go wrong.

 

[mike69440]

It is a $2,000 engine...have fun!

I think you missed a decimal point?
A pristine 2003 Mustang GT is about $2,000, and as there are common parts that interchange. Older Mustangs are an excellent source for certain parts.
A current replacement 5.0L Aluminator actually have come down about $4,000 over the years due to the popular Ford Performance Crate Engines.
The 2.0 LGT crate engine is very reasonable also.
LTG-2-0L-122-CID-Chevy-Crate-Engine

 

[NormT]

You can get a Ecotec 2.0T for a couple of grand. ZZP was pushing close to 500 hp with turbo and support on stock LTG. Just a ecu tune on premium is 400 lb-ft of tprque. Throw in some ethanol for insurance. The stock turbo with stock intake and exhaust can flow +33 lbs/min or so.

 

[supernoma]

Has anyone used a Turbobay turbo on a LTG Regal? I saw it was mentioned in the Regal Facebook group, but don't think I've seen it mention here.

FTW-ATS72X (STG1) Cadillac ATS 2.0L TURBO

 

[mike69440]

Anyone do a catch can on a 2.0LGT Regal? Baffled or not?
If anyone has installed a catch can, I think many of us would appreciate info on what you used and where you mounted the can. Photos would be a real help.

Thank you