Trifecta Install, Black Friday 2020

[BradyB0225]

Also, why not run 91-93 Octane? You are literally wasting money on the tune if you run 85-87 Octane.
The engine can run more timing with higher manifold pressure, with the slower ignition of higher octane fuels.
The twenty-something cents per gallon is worth better mileage (higher timing), and the 10-20% additional power at higher boost levels.

 

[FavaBean]

I'd be interested in someone's opinion of the relative mapped power differences between cruise engaged and disengaged.

Since the torque curve is rather flat, this could somewhat be tested by holding it in a higher gear and flooring it. While winding out the gear, toggle cruise on and off to see if any power surge(s) can be felt.

@Wlepse would you also be interested in testing next week? Maybe use 3rd or 4th gear?

 

[Opietheopel]

I find the sport mode a bit too aggressive. If the aggressiveness could be dialed back maybe 15% then I would say it is spot on.

 

[Wlepse]

I really wish Trifecta would be a little more transparent about what their tune is/does. With the cruise on it feels a little stronger than stock but still retains ASS and the terrible shift logic. So while it feels slower 0-60 I wonder how much is due to the shifts versus power made.

Today while driving around I tried switching back and forth between cruise on/off. My first test was started with cruise on, stopped at a light the car shut off, but as soon as I turned cruise off it restarted. With cruise on going down a country road the car was in 8th, switch it off and it immediately dropped a gear even though the pedal position was unchanged. Then I tried accelerating with cruise off, in third gear it turned cruise on and felt no change. This makes me think boost levels maybe the same or close and since it had already been in third there was nothing to change. Or it could be that it requires you to be off the gas to actually change maps.

I am starting to get used to the accelerator in sport mode, it kind of reminds me of my buddies tuned SRT. The difference is this car drops a few gears to make power, his anticipates the opening of the throttle and just makes a ton of torque in that gear. I have no issues with normal driving with sport mode but find it seems a little too digital when you go for a pass. Just a little too in has you dropping gears and acting like you are in Fast and Furious. I will say that someone was sitting in the left lane so as I pulled around the car took off like a rocket and I was doing ludicrous speed way too fast. I agree with Opoetheopel that if they just dialed this backs bit it would be more livable.

But with that said, did anyone have the ability to use Step 6 as shown here: EZ Flash User Guide - trifectaperformance.com
I am guessing this is for the next step up in programming but I wonder if it gives you the ability to fine tune things like the throttle input.

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[300T]

I have the Trifecta stage 1 and I believe one of the biggest restrictions in realising the potential of this platform comes from the GM imposed TCU torque limiters in the Aisin-Warner transmission.

I have read these were implemented by GM with emissions and fuel economy in mind, with torque limiting in all gears except for 2nd, 5th and 6th (off of the top of my head), which explains the pretty average 0-60 pull in factory tune and the lack of difference with a tune.

One of the German tuners offer a standalone TCU tune that removes the torque limiters giving full access to the stock 295 lbft. They also offer a stage 1 ECU in combination with the TCU tune, which is tailored to the higher torque output of stage 1.

https://www.eds-motorsport.de/product_info.php?info=p41006_opel-insignia-b-2-0-direct-injection-turbo--4x4---b20ltg-getriebeprogrammierung.html

I read a post on one of the German forums where tuners had a couple of 260 PS models on the rolling road before tuning and this showed the 295 lbft only being available for a brief moment in a particular gear. The same with the 260 PS, which again was only available for a brief moment in a particular gear. If I remember correctly they were both putting out around 200 PS but GM can market it as 260 PS because it does make that albeit briefly.
German owners were complaining about the poor Autobahn performance and inability to hit and maintain 150 mph in both the 260 and diesel Biturbo, since rectified on stock cars by a TCU tune.

Here in Europe, the 260 PS model was detuned to 200 PS from around 2018 in the search for ever lower group wide emissions and the LTG was then replaced with a totally new 230 PS engine majoring on fuel economy and emissions, whilst the older LTG was designed with a focus on performance. GM have totally neutered the potential of the 260 with those TCU restrictions. It certainly can't be an issue with the GKN Twinster AWD system as that's shared with both the Focus RS and the MB A45 AMG, and both of those are regularly and professionally tuned to well in excess of 400 lbft.

In Europe we have have numerous torque heavy diesel powered cars with the exact same AW transmission, making way more torque without the same restrictions. The Volvo V90 D5 AWD is a prime example as it makes 480 NM at 1750 rpm stock and pulls like a freight train, whilst the Insignia 2.0D Biturbo 4x4 makes circa 470 NM stock but due to GM's implementation of the torque limiters, you rarely see it.

Even the 2nd generation Volvo S60 2.0T Polestar (2015-2017) was putting out over 340 lbft through this transmission and that was a 4.8 sec to 60 car before tuning. Volvo even offer dealer fit Polestar tunes, which maintain the warranty and takes the D5 for example to in excess of the transmissions maximum torque limit of 480 NM and the tune includes transmission optimisation. My brother has a tuned 2019 BMW M135I 2.0T 4x4....with the exact same transmission and that is circa 330 lbft stock and circa 370 lbft at stage 1.

Insignia owners with the EDS TCU map and stock ECU tune say it transforms the car and is way more transformative than a stage 1 ECU on its own. It makes sense as you can throw 500 lbft at a car but you will never see it if the factory TCU tune only ever allows 250 lbft.

I have been in touch with Trifecta support and they seemed interested to look into the torque limiters as they run a TourX themselves, so maybe we will see an updated TCU tune in due course.

Congratulations if you have read this far.

 

[adam728]

I have the Trifecta stage 1 and I believe one of the biggest restrictions in realising the potential of this platform comes from the GM imposed TCU torque limiters in the Aisin-Warner transmission.

I have read these were implemented by GM with emissions and fuel economy in mind, with torque limiting in all gears except for 2nd, 5th and 6th (off of the top of my head), which explains the pretty average 0-60 pull in factory tune and the lack of difference with a tune.

One of the German tuners offer a standalone TCU tune that removes the torque limiters giving full access to the stock 295 lbft. They also offer a stage 1 ECU in combination with the TCU tune, which is tailored to the higher torque output of stage 1.

https://www.eds-motorsport.de/product_info.php?info=p41006_opel-insignia-b-2-0-direct-injection-turbo--4x4---b20ltg-getriebeprogrammierung.html

I read a post on one of the German forums where tuners had a couple of 260 PS models on the rolling road before tuning and this showed the 295 lbft only being available for a brief moment in a particular gear. The same with the 260 PS, which again was only available for a brief moment in a particular gear. If I remember correctly they were both putting out around 200 PS but GM can market it as 260 PS because it does make that albeit briefly.
German owners were complaining about the poor Autobahn performance and inability to hit and maintain 150 mph in both the 260 and diesel Biturbo, since rectified on stock cars by a TCU tune.

Here in Europe, the 260 PS model was detuned to 200 PS from around 2018 in the search for ever lower group wide emissions and the LTG was then replaced with a totally new 230 PS engine majoring on fuel economy and emissions, whilst the older LTG was designed with a focus on performance. GM have totally neutered the potential of the 260 with those TCU restrictions. It certainly can't be an issue with the GKN Twinster AWD system as that's shared with both the Focus RS and the MB A45 AMG, and both of those are regularly and professionally tuned to well in excess of 400 lbft.

In Europe we have have numerous torque heavy diesel powered cars with the exact same AW transmission, making way more torque without the same restrictions. The Volvo V90 D5 AWD is a prime example as it makes 480 NM at 1750 rpm stock and pulls like a freight train, whilst the Insignia 2.0D Biturbo 4x4 makes circa 470 NM stock but due to GM's implementation of the torque limiters, you rarely see it.

Even the 2nd generation Volvo S60 2.0T Polestar (2015-2017) was putting out over 340 lbft through this transmission and that was a 4.8 sec to 60 car before tuning. Volvo even offer dealer fit Polestar tunes, which maintain the warranty and takes the D5 for example to in excess of the transmissions maximum torque limit of 480 NM and the tune includes transmission optimisation. My brother has a tuned 2019 BMW M135I 2.0T 4x4....with the exact same transmission and that is circa 330 lbft stock and circa 370 lbft at stage 1.

Insignia owners with the EDS TCU map and stock ECU tune say it transforms the car and is way more transformative than a stage 1 ECU on its own. It makes sense as you can throw 500 lbft at a car but you will never see it if the factory TCU tune only ever allows 250 lbft.

I have been in touch with Trifecta support and they seemed interested to look into the torque limiters as they run a TourX themselves, so maybe we will see an updated TCU tune in due course.

Congratulations if you have read this far.

Interesting. On the Facebook page there was a TourX dyno pull showing 258 ftlbs at the wheels stock, and then 325 ftlbs with the Trifecta tune. Certianly wasn't still limited to 295 crank. I'll need to look deeper....

 

[RedX]

Yeah that TCU tune sounds interesting if we can get it here.

 

[300T]

Yeah that TCU tune sounds interesting if we can get it here.

I believe they ship worldwide.

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[300T]

Interesting. On the Facebook page there was a TourX dyno pull showing 258 ftlbs at the wheels stock, and then 325 ftlbs with the Trifecta tune. Certianly wasn't still limited to 295 crank. I'll need to look deeper....

I would definitely be interested to see that as I love this car but I really miss the torque of previous cars. It's possible the torque limiters are a European emissions thing and not fitted to North American bound Regal's.

What you say is interesting as I note every American test of a Regal has them a good second or so faster to 60 than European Insignia's with the same drivetrain.

 

[RedX]

I would definitely be interested to see that as I love this car but I really miss the torque of previous cars. It's possible the torque limiters are a European emissions thing and not fitted to North American bound Regal's.

What you say is interesting as I note every American test of a Regal has them a good second or so faster to 60 than European Insignia's with the same drivetrain.

Wonder how it would work with my Trifecta. Thats my concern.

 

[300T]

Wonder how it would work with my Trifecta. Thats my concern.

Unfortunately they will only apply the tcu tune to stock vehicles.

If you want both ecu and tcu then they offer a stage 2 package...at a price! Alternatively, stage 1 is just ecu only without tcu tune.

I can't remember the name of who it was I conversed with at Trifecta early December but he drives the Trifecta TourX development vehicle himself, so he seemed very keen on looking into the torque limiters.

I think the Trifecta stage 1 is a good package and I do notice the transmission optimisation but this doesn't change the torque limiters....yet!

 

[adam728]

I would definitely be interested to see that as I love this car but I really miss the torque of previous cars. It's possible the torque limiters are a European emissions thing and not fitted to North American bound Regal's.

What you say is interesting as I note every American test of a Regal has them a good second or so faster to 60 than European Insignia's with the same drivetrain.

Found it. It was Trifecta's dyno run. Since drivetrain loss it large with AWD they use a fwd Sportback for the dyno graph on their site. I don't care for that.

Anyway, it's from this Facebook post :

https://m.facebook.com/groups/316013335874394/permalink/409971756478551/

And Steven J Weller of Trifecta has the comment in there.

Yup I still need to get out and do the vbox thing. We put the TourX on the dyno, but frankly the numbers weren't favorable from a marketing standpoint. 30% awd drivetrain loss looks really bad on paper, and unfortunately a lot of folks look right at the absolute numbers instead of relative gains, and cast judgement prematurely.

I don't mind sharing this info with the TourX group though:

TourX stock was 191whp/258wtq and 225whp/325wtq tuned.
Factoring in the factory rating of 250hp/295tq, and using the observed drivetrain loss for horsepower and torque, it ends up AROUND a factory rating of 295hp/372tq. I'm sure our TourX customers so far can attest to just what a difference it makes.

(Dyno sheet is from DDPerformance in Sealy, TX)

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[300T]

Found it. It was Trifecta's dyno run. Since drivetrain loss it large with AWD they use a fwd Sportback for the dyno graph on their site. I don't care for that.

Anyway, it's from this Facebook post :

https://m.facebook.com/groups/316013335874394/permalink/409971756478551/

And Steven J Weller of Trifecta has the comment in there.


View attachment 27934

Thank you very much for sharing as it makes interesting reading, although I am surprised to read mention of torque around 372 as my own car feels absolutely nothing like that and I would go as far as saying it feels positively breathless in the lower gears from a standing start.

I can't help but compare to say the Skoda Superb (VW Passat platform), which is a 5 door wagon of the same size, similar weight, AWD, 7 speed dual clutch, 2.0T making 280 ps and 258 lbft, and that dispatches 60 in circa 5.6 seconds. Official figures for the Insignia in the UK are 7.1 seconds off of the top of my head and sadly I can believe it.

I know we shouldn't compare but it's human nature plus I have enjoyed numerous tuned Volvo and Saab wagons over the year's, so I was expecting a similar kind of thrust from the Insignia, given the additional torque and 8 speed transmission.

My last stage 1 9-5 Aero auto wagon was nicknamed the Millennium Falcon by my friends and that was a beast, even when lumbered with the pretty poor Aisin 5 speed. That transmission was only torque limited in 1st gear but it would fly once rolling and it was crazy at highway speeds where it would use its torque instead of constantly dropping a gear. Such a shame Saab are no longer with us.

I may see if Trifecta can install the tcu software from a US TourX on my car.

 

[BradyB0225]

Something to keep in mind, the TourX has a curb weight of 3708 - 3840 lb with a significant drivetrain loss for AWD. The 2018 FWD Sportback has a curb weight starting at 3417 lb (I don't know why they don't list that base vehicle weight for the 2019 & 2020 Regal). I'm just happy I didn't fall for the looks of the 4270 lb GS with less torque and without our significant tuning options. My base Regal with its 17" wheels, cloth interior, and minimal options feels significantly fast with the 2.0L Turbo and the Trifecta tune.
MotorTrend tested a 2018 TourX for a 0-60 of 6.3 seconds, Car & Driver tested a FWD Sportback at 5.6 seconds which sounds about right with the TourX using the slower 8-speed and having more weight. I'm still pissed we didn't get an FWD Regal Wagon without the lift kit and body cladding!

 

[PrincipalDan]

Something to keep in mind, the TourX has a curb weight of 3708 - 3840 lb with a significant drivetrain loss for AWD. The 2018 FWD Sportback has a curb weight starting at 3417 lb (I don't know why they don't list that base vehicle weight for the 2019 & 2020 Regal). I'm just happy I didn't fall for the looks of the 4270 lb GS with less torque and without our significant tuning options. My base Regal with its 17" wheels, cloth interior, and minimal options feels significantly fast with the 2.0L Turbo and the Trifecta tune.
MotorTrend tested a 2018 TourX for a 0-60 of 6.3 seconds, Car & Driver tested a FWD Sportback at 5.6 seconds which sounds about right with the TourX using the slower 8-speed and having more weight. I'm still pissed we didn't get an View attachment 27941 FWD Regal Wagon without the lift kit and body cladding!

Oh I greatly love and appreciate the AWD plus the extra torque that came with AWD and the 2.0T (v FWD models). I do wish we had gotten the 9 speed auto instead of the 8-speed. In my FIL's Terrain with 9 speed auto I can't even tell it's shifting most of the time. Very transparent transmission and very smooth.

 

[mike69440]

Something to keep in mind, the TourX has a curb weight of 3708 - 3840 lb with a significant drivetrain loss for AWD. The 2018 FWD Sportback has a curb weight starting at 3417 lb (I don't know why they don't list that base vehicle weight for the 2019 & 2020 Regal). I'm just happy I didn't fall for the looks of the 4270 lb GS with less torque and without our significant tuning options. My base Regal with its 17" wheels, cloth interior, and minimal options feels significantly fast with the 2.0L Turbo and the Trifecta tune.
MotorTrend tested a 2018 TourX for a 0-60 of 6.3 seconds, Car & Driver tested a FWD Sportback at 5.6 seconds which sounds about right with the TourX using the slower 8-speed and having more weight. I'm still pissed we didn't get an View attachment 27941 FWD Regal Wagon without the lift kit and body cladding!

STOCK

Something to keep in mind, the TourX has a curb weight of 3708 - 3840 lb with a significant drivetrain loss for AWD. The 2018 FWD Sportback has a curb weight starting at 3417 lb (I don't know why they don't list that base vehicle weight for the 2019 & 2020 Regal). I'm just happy I didn't fall for the looks of the 4270 lb GS with less torque and without our significant tuning options. My base Regal with its 17" wheels, cloth interior, and minimal options feels significantly fast with the 2.0L Turbo and the Trifecta tune.
MotorTrend tested a 2018 TourX for a 0-60 of 6.3 seconds, Car & Driver tested a FWD Sportback at 5.6 seconds which sounds about right with the TourX using the slower 8-speed and having more weight. I'm still pissed we didn't get an View attachment 27941 FWD Regal Wagon without the lift kit and body cladding!

Stock 0-60 TourX is 7 sec flat on a good run.

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[adam728]

STOCK

Stock 0-60 TourX is 7 sec flat on a good run.

Car amd Driver has it as 6.4 sec, Motortrend 6.3 sec. But yea, test times are often nearly impossible to emulate.

I care more about passing power anyway. Never was concerned with neck snapping launches from a Buick station wagon. Wrong tool for the job.

 

[300T]

STOCK

Stock 0-60 TourX is 7 sec flat on a good run.

I totally agree with the AWD 0-60 in 7 seconds and sadly a tune makes absolutely no difference in the 5 torque limited gears (8 speed AW), which is why I don't recall reading of anyone noticing any difference from a standing start or at lower speeds. Most of the benefits of stage 1 seem to be realised at highway speeds but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's entire annual mileage isn't accrued predominately via the highway.

I appreciate you don't buy these cars for the traffic signal grand prix but where I live, with multiple lanes merging into just one from a traffic signal and numerous roundabouts, some additional torque in the lower gears would be totally appreciated.

If EDS in Germany can remove the torque limiters from the 8 speed AW for both stock tunes and stage, with its much higher torque output, I am really hoping Trifecta can do the same.

 

[RedX]

I totally agree with the AWD 0-60 in 7 seconds and sadly a tune makes absolutely no difference in the 5 torque limited gears (8 speed AW), which is why I don't recall reading of anyone noticing any difference from a standing start or at lower speeds. Most of the benefits of stage 1 seem to be realised at highway speeds but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's entire annual mileage isn't accrued predominately via the highway.

I appreciate you don't buy these cars for the traffic signal grand prix but where I live, with multiple lanes merging into just one from a traffic signal and numerous roundabouts, some additional torque in the lower gears would be totally appreciated.

If EDS in Germany can remove the torque limiters from the 8 speed AW for both stock tunes and stage, with its much higher torque output, I am really hoping Trifecta can do the same.

Agreed.

Trifecta should talk to EDS to see how they did it and make it happen.

 

[300T]

Agreed.

Trifecta should talk to EDS to see how they did it and make it happen.

The Trifecta team are a talented bunch and they have the skills to make these changes but it obviously won't happen overnight.

I suspect the reason EDS already offer this TCU tune is due to the AW 8 speed appearing in an awful lot of cars over here in Europe, which possibly isn't the cse in the USA. At least Trifecta are keen to look into the torque limiters as they run a TourX themselves.