Tune.... IPF, Trifecta, HP Tuners

Who has had a 14' AWD GS tuned? Any transmission issues? I used to drive a TBSS and the trans was made out of typical GM cheese. Will these new AWD transmissions hold the extra HP with no reliability issues?



Haldex makes the AWD system, but the transmission is still GM's Hydramatic (I think it's the 6T70, but I might be wrong).

The weak point won't be the Haldex system, but your concerns about the transmission are valid.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how they do.
 
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Haldex makes the AWD system, but the transmission is still GM's Hydramatic (I think it's the 6T70, but I might be wrong).

The weak point won't be the Haldex system, but your concerns about the transmission are valid.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how they do.


Quote from one of our engineers in Germany;
Here in Germany they are using the ZF gearbox F40 with AWD Haldex System …

In China they are using the same gearbox as in the USA and even with 380PS we never have any problems with the gearbox or TCU
 
So you're attributing a 2-4 car length advantage to AWD and less horsepower?

Change your driving style maybe? If the car isn't hooking up, you've obviously got too much throttle input.


Regarding traction, your limitation is tires and driver ability. In the case of the 12 GS, there's also the issue of that gearbox, but that's a whole other subject... since comparing an auto vs a manual isn't really comparing same for same.

The AWD GS also has shorter gearing, which would allow the car to get up to speed quicker with less HP than the previous model. And, by the way, we're only talking about an 11hp difference. Not exactly a deciding blow in a 4000lb car. The REAL story is the fact that the new car also makes its peak torque at 1700RPM vs the older car making it at 2400RPM. So yes, you CAN make that up with things like gearing and drive train set up.

400hp through the front wheels is easily manageable, if you know what you're doing. The import car scene proves that. Although I must say I have no idea where the 400HP comment comes from, as I don't understand the context of it.
If you've got 400hp in your car and that's what you're hinting at, then you'll need to do something about those tires, pick up a limited slip, and possibly get to work on a 2-step so you can get more effective launches. And then practice, practice, practice.

I can't imagine somebody would go through the trouble of getting to a figure like 400HP and not take the trouble to address a traction issue, and then simply assume the only solution is less HP and AWD.

Using that logic, the trick to getting the older car better track times is to dial out some of the HP so that you get traction and don't lose time spinning wheels. The easiest way to do that is with the gas pedal.

If awd was the end all solution for traction even in drag racing, that's all you'd see at the strip. And coming from more than a few decent performance AWD cars (DSM with big turbo, VR4 3KGT with basic mods, B5 S4 with K04 swap, big turbo bugeye, Forester with STI swap), after first and part of second in most cases, you always want to be in the car with 2WD putting more power to the ground.

The reality here is that we're talking apples to oranges.

I suppose we can agree to disagree on what's ultimately better.

I'd rather drive the thing than just stomp on the gas and wish I had less power so my tires don't spin.

Either I didn't write it right or you didn't read it right. Since my first post I said if both cars had the same HP and I was talking about both with 400 HP. Stock, the AWD GS 0-60 is 6.2. That's not me, that's from a motor trend test. The best I've seen a 2012 FWD GS with 11 more HP is 6.2. REAL WORLD evidence says they are the same to 60. Where the AWD will kill is when you can put all 400 HP from Kranz like Performance upgrades. The heavier AWD V6 OPC has a 0-60 of 5.8. That's with only 325 HP.

I also have an auto. Kranz has stick. Wheel spin doesn't care if the car is auto or not. More power to the front on launch equal more wheel spin. That's a no brainer.

Really, you're not talking to some idiot who just bought a car. I've been drag racing since 1976. My logic is not to dial out power to get better traction. That's Lame. I know with practice a could improve my times. I've said so. I also know no mater how good you become, being consistent is almost impossible with high HP in FWD without launch control. My logic is to be honest with the members.

Thanks for the insight IPF.

I'm loving the Tune BTW. 🙂
 
It will be great if IPF can offer a calibration map for the Regal ZFR.
On the EDS facebook they explained Regal GS engines built after 2010 need steel forged rods to run over 320WHP on any bigturbo setup.
 
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It will be great if IPF can offer a calibration map for the Regal ZFR.
On the EDS facebook they explained Regal GS engines built after 2010 need steel forged rods to run over 320WHP on any bigturbo setup.

Regal GS came out in the US after 2010, there's plenty out there pushing over 320IIRC with no issues, plus our rods are forged steel from the factory.
 
It will be great if IPF can offer a calibration map for the Regal ZFR.
On the EDS facebook they explained Regal GS engines built after 2010 need steel forged rods to run over 320WHP on any bigturbo setup.
Really? Link me to that , I wanna check it out

IPF mentioned to me that I would need upgraded rods for my GS on a ZFR tune BUT we all agreed for 350hp for now , considering I Dyboed 182whp .. Jumping up to 285-300whp give or take is a significant jump , I was on FMSRs site and they make a set of rods in house for 500.. Come fall if not a little earlier than that I will look into that

However though I'm just waiting on IPF and the engineers to get me a tune .. Car drives fine with a ZFR turbo in it drives a little slow because of the stock GM tuning but with such a bigger turbo theres a big room for improvement
 
Regal GS came out in the US after 2010, there's plenty out there pushing over 320IIRC with no issues, plus our rods are forged steel from the factory.
No, they arent forged steel. LDK rods are powdered metal rods.

Really? Link me to that , I wanna check it out

IPF mentioned to me that I would need upgraded rods for my GS on a ZFR tune BUT we all agreed for 350hp for now , considering I Dyboed 182whp .. Jumping up to 285-300whp give or take is a significant jump , I was on FMSRs site and they make a set of rods in house for 500.. Come fall if not a little earlier than that I will look into that

However though I'm just waiting on IPF and the engineers to get me a tune .. Car drives fine with a ZFR turbo in it drives a little slow because of the stock GM tuning but with such a bigger turbo theres a big room for improvement

Link in German, read comments..you may try google translator but IPF is a top tuner, so they know their stuff :https://www.facebook.com/EDS.Fahrzeugtechnik.GmbH/posts/731275196936416
 
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Regal GS came out in the US after 2010, there's plenty out there pushing over 320IIRC with no issues, plus our rods are forged steel from the factory.
Tell that to the cobalt guys, dumb. ..
 
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Yeah, rods aren't an issue in any of the ecotec turbo engines (LNF, LHU, LDK) until you hit high HP numbers, like 500. ZZP didn't bend a stock rod until they hit about that much HP, and that was cause of some other failure that caused heavy KR causing one of the rods to bend.

Really, the weakness in the engine are the pistons, which are hypereutectic and the super close ring gap. They are strong, but prone to stress fractures and ringland failures once you push them past a certain point.

I never had any issues at the power level in my sig on my LNF and all I did was replace the pistons. I bought it new in 09 and had it until March of this year. It was tuned at 4k miles onward until the day I got the GS.

Timing components do take a beating however....
 
You guys at BNR should know that rods are PM not forged steel.
Even the link you reference says are PM rods, just check under specifications.
2ro2mwn.jpg

Just google for "LHU powdered metal" keywords to find many references to the rods.
Anyhow the thing here is lo learn how much power this PM rod can withstand.
Regarding Cobalts, part number on Cobalt Rods are different than part number on Regal GS therefore could Cobalt ones resist more ?
I would like have to an answer for that question because really don't know.

Rotating Assembly
The crankshaft is made of drop forged steel with induction heat-treated fillets and cross-drilled chamfered oil passages for racing-grade lubrication characteristics. Forged powdered metal connecting rods incorporate a larger, forged I-beam cross section for added strength in this turbocharged application.

The pistons in the 2.0L turbo are lightweight cast aluminum, which reduces reciprocating mass inside the engine. This enhances efficiency and the feeling of performance as the rpm increases. The tops of the pistons have a dish shape that deflects injected fuel toward the spark plugs, optimizing the thorough-combustion benefits of direct injection.

Each piston has its own directed jet that sprays oil toward its skirt, coating its underside and the cylinder wall with an additional layer of lubricant. The extra lubrication cools the pistons, reduces both friction and operational noise and bolsters the engine's durability.


http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lhu/
Says connecting rods forged steel
And crankshaft forged steel
 
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You guys at BNR should know that rods are PM not forged steel.
Even the link you reference says are PM rods, just check under specifications.
2ro2mwn.jpg

Just google for "LHU powdered metal" keywords to find many references to the rods.
Anyhow the thing here is lo learn how much power this PM rod can withstand.
Regarding Cobalts, part number on Cobalt Rods are different than part number on Regal GS therefore could Cobalt ones resist more ?
I would like have to an answer for that question because really don't know.

My phone didn't show all that
Only showed this
 
Basically is stronger than cast iron but weaker than forged steel, GM started using them because are lighter but still strong.
But I don't know how strong they are, probably that's the reason why IPF guys in Germany says LDK needs forged steel over 320WHP.


So what's the verdict? Powdered forged metal FTW?
 
I know it is a different car, but in my Bonneville I was running an L32 (3800 series III) block with the PM rods. This is with a 3.2 pulley, oversized cam P&P blower and LIM, tune etc. basically not a stock set up. While on a road trip it dropped a valve and this is what happened.

First picture is cylinder bore with head removed, note no piston and undamaged rod



Next picture is the piston and valve in the oil pan



I believe the PM rods are stronger than the forged (broke a couple of those too), but who knows what the real limits of each are. Would be an interesting test and fun to do. Load em up and test for flex and how much force before breakage.
 
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I have read pistons are weak on LDK, then read rods are weak so as you say a final test is what we need.
 
Wow, that's trophy-worthy destruction right there.


PM is not stronger than an aftermarket forged unit. An HE piston can actually be ultimately stronger than a forged piston, the problem is they are more brittle and thus more sensitive to detonation. HE was the middle ground for factory cars vs cast and forged; the issue with forged pistons is they expand/contract more so when cold the clearances are wider, and the piston makes more noise. Notable case of this was Ford switching from forged to cast pistons on the 5.0 in '93 (vs. forged in 88-92) because they received too many customer complaints about noise cold engines. Brilliant.
 
Yah that's false, there's tons of people daily driving 450+ stock bottom end
 
I know there are many but wondered why germans (place where Regal was designed) say that about weak rods.

Yah that's false, there's tons of people daily driving 450+ stock bottom end
 
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